Mother bear kills cub and then itself

[Adam Of Angels]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

Let's face it, humans are tearing this whole planet apart and killing each other in the name of money/power/religion. We have a lot of potential to do good things, but we're way off reaching that. There are good people out there, but there are also a lot more bad people and they tend to get their way because they're willing to d bad things for it.

There's definitely not "a lot more bad" people than good. You just buy into the fear you're fed, and therefore you notice the bad far more than the good. You'll see what you're looking for - the world's pretty big.

[highlordmugfug]

I can't help but wonder how many people that realize what they're doing to those bears is atrocious, don't think twice about eating factory farm produced meat/eggs/dairy.

Feel free to flame me.

[Adam Of Angels]

Originally Posted by emperor_black

Bro, not a personal attack, but knowingly or unknowingly, we are all responsible for whatever happens to beings who cannot fight for themselves.

A dude in China guts a bear in the privacy of his own establishment, and we're all responsible? I understand what you're implying, but this just isn't true. In fact, it's absurd. We all have our own will and our own actions. I'm sure the majority of us here would do something about these assholes if given the opportunity.. However, being that we don't have the opportunity, we probably won't be able to do anything about it, let alone be responsible for it.

[rjnix_0329]

Originally Posted by Chickenhawk

I secretly wish that bear would have learned to use tools and Mcgyver'd a ....ing Gatling Gun and murdered everybody involved in that operation.

well...maybe not so secretly.

I secretly wish the bear would've done all of this, but only wounded the ....ers with a bullet hole in the gut, placed them all in 3x3 cages, and collected bile from their wounds for the next 50 years.

...well, maybe not so secretly.

Damn humanity. No matter what religion or philosophy or lack of either that you believe in, we have a responsibility to stop this shit.

[FretWizard88]

China...

Producing shitty guitars, and making animals kill themselves.

















Seriously though........ them...this makes me sick.

[DrakkarTyrannis]

In these situations it's easy to say that the Chinese are cruel but you have to take into consideration the cultural differences. Whereas I do believe the animals suffered for no reason, it's because I grew up in an environment which taught that. These people aren't "evil", but it's just in their culture. Their medicine is a part of their culture and history and even though it violates modern-world ethics, that doesn't make it right or wrong.

I often try to take myself out of the modern/western way of thinking whenever I read articles such as this. It's hard and it doesn't sit right with me to justify what they do but I have to take into consideration that these people don't have the same mindset. Doesn't make me better or whatever, just different.

[vampiregenocide]

Originally Posted by Adam Of Angels

There's definitely not "a lot more bad" people than good. You just buy into the fear you're fed, and therefore you notice the bad far more than the good. You'll see what you're looking for - the world's pretty big.

I don't buy into anything, I formulate my own educated opinions based on what I see. I notice the bad more than the good because bad people tend to be more successful in achieving what they want. They are willing to do more to get it. That's why the world economy is in a state, that's why we have wars, that's why millions of people suffer in poverty. There may not be more bad people than good, but bad people are in control.

Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis

In these situations it's easy to say that the Chinese are cruel but you have to take into consideration the cultural differences. Whereas I do believe the animals suffered for no reason, it's because I grew up in an environment which taught that. These people aren't "evil", but it's just in their culture. Their medicine is a part of their culture and history and even though it violates modern-world ethics, that doesn't make it right or wrong.

I often try to take myself out of the modern/western way of thinking whenever I read articles such as this. It's hard and it doesn't sit right with me to justify what they do but I have to take into consideration that these people don't have the same mindset. Doesn't make me better or whatever, just different.

I am pretty open to other cultures, but in this instance, .... culture. Not only do most of their medicines hold no real medical value, it is obtained in an unsustainable and disgusting way. Throughout history we have discarded aspects of our culture that either hold no logical weight or are morally challenging. Simply allowing people to do whatever they want in the name of culture is silly. No animal should suffer because of some stupid human notion that we have to continue with a pointless tradition of useless medicines.

[Adam Of Angels]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

I don't buy into anything, I formulate my own educated opinions based on what I see. I notice the bad more than the good because bad people tend to be more successful in achieving what they want. They are willing to do more to get it. That's why the world economy is in a state, that's why we have wars, that's why millions of people suffer in poverty. There may not be more bad people than good, but bad people are in control.

This is exactly my point. What you see is what's in the news. It's an industry of fear.

[vampiregenocide]

Originally Posted by Adam Of Angels

This is exactly my point. What you see is what's in the news. It's an industry of fear.

I see plenty of good things in the news too though, and in every day life. It's not like I am not exposed to good things, unfortunately a small charity event that raises a few hundred pounds for Cancer is a drop in the ocean compared to a negative event like 90 people being killed in a bombing attack on some Middle Eastern country.

When bad things happen, they tend to have a bigger effect than good things.

[Sicarius]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

All Rural medicine is ....ing retarded backwards shit.

fixed

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

I am pretty open to other cultures, but in this instance, .... culture. Not only do most of their medicines hold no real medical value, it is obtained in an unsustainable and disgusting way. Throughout history we have discarded aspects of our culture that either hold no logical weight or are morally challenging. Simply allowing people to do whatever they want in the name of culture is silly. No animal should suffer because of some stupid human notion that we have to continue with a pointless tradition of useless medicines.

Well if nothing else it's the placebo effect. They think it works and for some it might. Does that make it okay? To us, no. I certainly think it's completely useless and just stupid, not to mention cruel to the animals. However to "tread" on another culture is a dangerous issue because even though we see this custom as needless and stupid (which from our perspective is hard to see any other way), they see it as valid. It would be nice if they eventually saw it as a stupid custom that should be done away with, I'm just saying don't hold your breath waiting for it.

[highlordmugfug]

Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis

Well if nothing else it's the placebo effect. They think it works and for some it might. Does that make it okay? To us, no. I certainly think it's completely useless and just stupid, not to mention cruel to the animals. However to "tread" on another culture is a dangerous issue because even though we see this custom as needless and stupid (which from our perspective is hard to see any other way), they see it as valid. It would be nice if they eventually saw it as a stupid custom that should be done away with, I'm just saying don't hold your breath waiting for it.

I don't think that he has an issue with 'Chinese culture', well since I can't speak for him, I'll say that I personally don't have an issue with Chinese culture, but I do take issue with cruel things like what's being done to those bears in question.

If they think that it works, and want to continue doing it, then it'd be best if double blind studies could/would be done to prove if it even actually has an effect (dollars to doughnuts it doesn't), as opposed to blindly continuing to do what is so obviously cruel. That's not even taking into account what we value the necessity of it to be. If something so blatantly cruel is going on, then it makes perfect sense to question if it's really necessary/accomplishing what's going on, all cultural differences aside. All it takes is empathy, would you like be cut into, thrown into a cage, and have your bladder milked for years? No, go figure. You should probably make sure that you actually should be doing it/that you're even accomplishing what the intended goal is.


It is a strange gray-area of sorts, but I don't think that there's anything culturally-insensitive about questioning actions that are so obviously harmful to the the welfare of other living, thinking, feeling beings.

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Originally Posted by highlordmugfug

I don't think that he has an issue with 'Chinese culture', well since I can't speak for him, I'll say that I personally don't have an issue with Chinese culture, but I do take issue with cruel things like what's being done to those bears in question.

If they think that it works, and want to continue doing it, then it'd be best if double blind studies could/would be done to prove if it even actually has an effect (dollars to doughnuts it doesn't), as opposed to blindly continuing to do what is so obviously cruel. That's not even taking into account what we value the necessity of it to be. If something so blatantly cruel is going on, then it makes perfect sense to question if it's really necessary/accomplishing what's going on, all cultural differences aside. All it takes is empathy, would you like be cut into, thrown into a cage, and have your bladder milked for years? No, go figure. You should probably make sure that you actually should be doing it/that you're even accomplishing what the intended goal is.


It is a strange gray-area of sorts, but I don't think that there's anything culturally-insensitive about questioning actions that are so obviously harmful to the the welfare of other living, thinking, feeling beings.

I certainly agree. You would THINK it'd be a matter of common sense that this custom is just stupid, yet they keep doing it. The issue, partially, is that they actually think the product justifies how it's obtained. Not to just seem argumentative but I honestly wonder if people view the slaughter of animals for food in the same manner as this. Actually I ask because of a previous poster's input.

[highlordmugfug]

Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis

I certainly agree. You would THINK it'd be a matter of common sense that this custom is just stupid, yet they keep doing it. The issue, partially, is that they actually think the product justifies how it's obtained. Not to just seem argumentative but I honestly wonder if people view the slaughter of animals for food in the same manner as this. Actually I ask because of a previous poster's input.

The previous poster was me.

EDIT: And I think self-centerednes has a lot to do with it: if it benefits themselves (or for another food example if it seems to benefit their species/humans) then to hell with everyone else.

[Adam Of Angels]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

I see plenty of good things in the news too though, and in every day life. It's not like I am not exposed to good things, unfortunately a small charity event that raises a few hundred pounds for Cancer is a drop in the ocean compared to a negative event like 90 people being killed in a bombing attack on some Middle Eastern country.

When bad things happen, they tend to have a bigger effect than good things.

To clarify, my point is that fear and negativity sells in the news... Positivity, not so much.

[BrianUV777BK]

I thought that header was going to be a joke when I first read it. Now I wish it was.

[Bobo]

We can look back in time and be disgusted in past cultures...I wonder how we will generally be thought of in the distant future. Ok, sorta tangent, kinda.

[Jakke]

Anyone who's ever played Polar Bear Payback? That is how I wanted it to be on that farm...

The chinese however will not stop with their medicine any time soon... I'd say the chinese have a kind of disposition to feel superior to others, anicent China sent out ships to explore all around the word. When they came back with their finds, all of China concluded there was nothing of interest outside of their country, and they closed themself in. The latest sixty years of communist borderlining on rascist propaganda has also done wonders for inflating the chinese self-image.

So, if they believe their medicine to be superior to our western (that is proved to work on a chemical level), are they really gonna stop with it?

[Murmel]

Originally Posted by nostealbucket

Wait.... so in "Ancient China Time" they found a bear, killed it... and then decided to consume the bile....

What the .... moment....

Bears are ....ing awesome. I'm surprised they haven't taken over china.... but they will... oh, they will....

You'd be surprised how many weird ass things people did back in the day.

[daemon barbeque]

All of you who eat chicken, eggs and pork products should STFU! You all do it to chickens and pigs on daily basis.
Crush Cages? Check!
Inhuman Injections, overfeeding, sleep deprivation? Check!

It happens to come interesting and disgusting if somebody in China does it to an uncommon animal we tend to repsect more than pigs and poultry, but we do it in the same way.
We transport animals to the slaughterhouse where %10 die or heavylie hurt themselfs on transport.
Talk about Cruelty!

[Dvaienat]

Originally Posted by highlordmugfug

I can't help but wonder how many people that realize what they're doing to those bears is atrocious, don't think twice about eating factory farm produced meat/eggs/dairy.

Feel free to flame me.

Exactly. I'm a vegetarian and would like to be vegan, though I have an eating disorder which would prevent that. I always make the effort to buy free range eggs and dairy farmed organic milk.

Though factory farming is not as bad as what is happening in China, it still is pretty atrocious.

Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis

In these situations it's easy to say that the Chinese are cruel but you have to take into consideration the cultural differences. Whereas I do believe the animals suffered for no reason, it's because I grew up in an environment which taught that. These people aren't "evil", but it's just in their culture. Their medicine is a part of their culture and history and even though it violates modern-world ethics, that doesn't make it right or wrong.

I often try to take myself out of the modern/western way of thinking whenever I read articles such as this. It's hard and it doesn't sit right with me to justify what they do but I have to take into consideration that these people don't have the same mindset. Doesn't make me better or whatever, just different.

Having a 'different culture' does not justify torturing animals to produce unnecessary medicines. Torturing innocent animals is wrong on all bases and the people behind it are evil. No two ways about it. It is not about the culture, it is about the action.

[vampiregenocide]

Originally Posted by Adam Of Angels

To clarify, my point is that fear and negativity sells in the news... Positivity, not so much.

Well I certainly agree with that, though I didn't think that was the point you were trying to make originally.

Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis

Well if nothing else it's the placebo effect. They think it works and for some it might. Does that make it okay? To us, no. I certainly think it's completely useless and just stupid, not to mention cruel to the animals. However to "tread" on another culture is a dangerous issue because even though we see this custom as needless and stupid (which from our perspective is hard to see any other way), they see it as valid. It would be nice if they eventually saw it as a stupid custom that should be done away with, I'm just saying don't hold your breath waiting for it.

I have no problem with culture as a whole, the Chinese culture is beautiful and they have provided us with a myriad of inventions now common in modern times. However, without international pressure, they will continue this selfish industry. And what then? When tigers are extinct in the wild will you still stand up for their culture then? We have to draw a line in the sand, and sometimes it takes people with common sense to force other people to see the light. There is a clear line between right and wrong here, and we need to enforce it. We have stopped bear baiting, whaling and other such activities across the world by international pressure. We still have a long way to go, but if we just let them have at it then they will cause damage and harm the lives of many animals.

Originally Posted by daemon barbeque

All of you who eat chicken, eggs and pork products should STFU! You all do it to chickens and pigs on daily basis.
Crush Cages? Check!
Inhuman Injections, overfeeding, sleep deprivation? Check!

It happens to come interesting and disgusting if somebody in China does it to an uncommon animal we tend to repsect more than pigs and poultry, but we do it in the same way.
We transport animals to the slaughterhouse where %10 die or heavylie hurt themselfs on transport.
Talk about Cruelty!

I'm sorry dude but that really doesn't hold much weight. Here especially, many farms at least in the UK are under strict animal rights standards so the animals have to be treated well and have good living conditions. I try to stay away from anyone who has a bad record with that sort of thing. And either way, there's the old saying 'two wrongs don't make a right'. I wouldn't accept that sort of cruelty wherever it took place.

[daemon barbeque]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

Well I certainly agree with that, though I didn't think that was the point you were trying to make originally.



I have no problem with culture as a whole, the Chinese culture is beautiful and they have provided us with a myriad of inventions now common in modern times. However, without international pressure, they will continue this selfish industry. And what then? When tigers are extinct in the wild will you still stand up for their culture then? We have to draw a line in the sand, and sometimes it takes people with common sense to force other people to see the light. There is a clear line between right and wrong here, and we need to enforce it. We have stopped bear baiting, whaling and other such activities across the world by international pressure. We still have a long way to go, but if we just let them have at it then they will cause damage and harm the lives of many animals.




I'm sorry dude but that really doesn't hold much weight. Here especially, many farms at least in the UK are under strict animal rights standards so the animals have to be treated well and have good living conditions. I try to stay away from anyone who has a bad record with that sort of thing. And either way, there's the old saying 'two wrongs don't make a right'. I wouldn't accept that sort of cruelty wherever it took place.

You are right about that two wrongs don't make a right, and I am happy to hear that. But I have to say something about livestock farming in the whole Europe. I am a Vet as you might remember, and the "workarounds" for those "high-standarts" is pretty common thing to see. I am confident that you eat somehow somewhere some chicken, or go to restaurants and order something. How many of you ever went to local farms to check how the food is processed? How animals are made "unconcious".
Do you know how the Bulls are castrated? How we brand livestock? There are too many atrocities we accept in the name of convinience. My rant is not about those atrocities, that belongs to another thread. But my rant is about the double standard of humankind, not important where.
Chinese do that, but the Danes and Norwegians kill seals for fun, kill young animals with clubbs to get fur or blubber or whatever else. Whales got shot and tortured to produce lip-stick and other cosmetics. We do it as much or worse as the chinese.There is no excuse for that.

[Adam Of Angels]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

Well I certainly agree with that, though I didn't think that was the point you were trying to make originally.

What - you thought I was calling you gullable? I guess I am in a way, but to be more specific, I'm saying that you simply believe what you're told (naturally, news tells you what happens in the world). That sounds offensive, but it's irrefutably true. Therefore, you just focus n the negative. Humans are not inherently bad, it's just that we're still minimally evolved and a lot of us are narrow-minded, stupid, ignorant and lack empathy. We're like children, yet.

[vampiregenocide]

I know there are a lot of places that don't do things as well as they should do. Only recently footage of animal abuse at a farm I think it was in the UK was passed about. There was a huge uproar and I believe the workers lost their jobs.

I have spoken to a guy who is trained to slaughter animals, and they have to do it by the book. If they get caught doing something they shouldn't they pay for it. It takes training before they're allowed to kill an animal. In the UK at least (Can't speak for the mainland) there are very strict guidelines as pressure is growing on farmers from animal welfare groups and the general public. There tends to be a very good record here, and anyone who doesn't keep the standards soon feels the heat.

Sure, I've probably eaten animals that have suffered at one point or another, but then we all probably use things every day that have been created out of suffering either human or animal. Animal testing, human slave labour, these things make the world go round. Do you know where all the parts of your computer and electronic goods come from? What about the fuel you use? Or all the other foods you eat? To say that an opinion is invalid just because we use something created by one of these processes is unfair, as most people are guilty of the same thing. And either way, whether I eat chicken or not doesn't negate the fact that what these people are doing is wrong. My opinion is still valid. Just because I eat meat doesn't mean I can't speak up for the rights of animals.

There are no double standards as far as I'm concerned. Animal cruelty is wrong full stop. I have boycotted companies who have been found to allow animal cruelty until they sorted their act out. It doesn't matter whether it is China, Japan, America or the UK, I will speak against it. Yeah there are probably worse cases than what we're seeing in China, KFC have done some horrific shit, but comparing one bad thing to another and saying 'oh well other people do bad stuff too' doesn't make it any less of a bad thing.

Originally Posted by Adam Of Angels

What - you thought I was calling you gullable? I guess I am in a way, but to be more specific, I'm saying that you simply believe what you're told (naturally, news tells you what happens in the world). That sounds offensive, but it's irrefutably true. Therefore, you just focus n the negative. Humans are not inherently bad, it's just that we're still minimally evolved and a lot of us are narrow-minded, stupid, ignorant and lack empathy. We're like children, yet.

Yes that is what I thought and that's why I was 'arguing' with you. The news isn't the be all and end all of information for me. Personal experience applies too. The bias in the new towards negative things is obvious, and when you notice that you can seek out a more general view of things by looking at other news sources. Thus, you get a more rounded view of the way things are.