Extreme Rightwing Christian Terrorists attack Norway

[Grand Moff Tim]

HEY LOOK SOMETHING ABOUT THE INCIDENT INSTEAD OF RELIGIOUS BICKERING!

I read an article on Reuters about the Norwegian populace's reaction to the police's handling of the event. Seems many people in the international community think the police reaction time was so delayed as to be unacceptable, but the population as a whole has generally traditionally been accepting and appreciative of their police force (unlike many other western countries), so for now not too many people there have anything negative to say about them.

Any thoughts from the norwegians on the board here? What about the non-Norwegians?

I'm pretty sure I heard the media complaining about Emergency Response times being too slow for almost every tragic event that has taken place in the US since I've been old enough to pay attention to that sort of thing, so I thought it was interesting to see the opposite reaction so far in Norway.

Here's the article:

Analysis: Culture shields sluggish Norway police from critics | Reuters

And here's one about a pending security review:

Norway agrees to security review after killings | Reuters

[Jakke]

^Well, the best drivers are always in the back seat.

[Demiurge]

Originally Posted by Jakke

^Well, the best drivers are always in the back seat.

Right. One of the dumbest ways of coping with a tragedy is engaging in magical thinking, believing that certain authorities are all-knowing and could have stopped it. When psychopaths do terrible things, we still want to pretend that we have some agency in the matter, but we don't. Yet, we try to regain power in the matter by blaming the police, the government, etc. for not somehow-magically-knowing-about what was going to happen and stopping it!

[vampiregenocide]

As well prepared as police forces are, I don't think anyone can completely prepare for a mad gunman to go on an armed rampage on a small island. Not only do you have to sort out getting guns, but you have to actually get to the island which means sorting out a boat that can carry a good number of people over there. The fact that police forces were already engaged in dealing with the bombing meant that it really tested them.

That being said, I have heard some things which could highlight issues regarding their organisation. First off, apparently a lot of kids on the island called the police and were ignored, being told they didn't believe them. When the police did get on scene, they didn't have the means of dealing with the threat and ended up just waiting for the SWAT team to turn up, who also had trouble finding a means of transportation over to the island.

[Jakke]

Not to mention that norwegian police don't usually carry weapons, so they had to collect them too.

[Murmel]

Originally Posted by Jakke

Not to mention that norwegian police don't usually carry weapons, so they had to collect them too.

I don't know how it is with our police force, and I'm not one of the people who wants everyone to have guns, but I really think that every police officer should carry a firearm. Because you never know when shit's about to go down. ...., if they can, have a shotgun somewhere in the car too, for the times when a pistol just isn't enough.

Also, if several kids are calling the police (probably frightened for their lives, some were most definitely crying and panicking on the phone) about an incident like this, you can't really not take it seriously. I wonder how the people who answered those first calls feel right now.

[chronocide]

A cursory look at the amounts of gun related crime in nations where the police are armed compared with where they aren't suggests only having specialist police with weapons is a good idea.

if there's truth in initial reports of the situation being ignored though... Christ.

[Grand Moff Tim]

Originally Posted by chronocide

A cursory look at the amounts of gun related crime in nations where the police are armed compared with where they aren't suggests only having specialist police with weapons is a good idea.

But are countries with police who carry guns more violent because they carry guns, or do they carry guns because they're more violent? Are you implying that having an armed police force leads to more violence, or am I reading too much in to that? It'd be interesting to read some articles about that, if that's actually a popular idea.

[Murmel]

Originally Posted by chronocide

A cursory look at the amounts of gun related crime in nations where the police are armed compared with where they aren't suggests only having specialist police with weapons is a good idea.

if there's truth in initial reports of the situation being ignored though... Christ.

I would love to see some of those statistics, link them if you know any links And I'm not talking stuff like automatic weapons, just a simple pistol.
I think that the Swedish police carry a pistol at all times. I am not 100% on this though.

[vampiregenocide]

Every squad car should have a pistol that is locked away until needed, that way a police officer is less likely to pull it out quickly and make a rash decision.

[Grand Moff Tim]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

Every squad car should have a pistol that is locked away until needed, that way a police officer is less likely to pull it out quickly and make a rash decision.

What about beat cops on foot? Or is that not a thing in the UK?

[urklvt]

I like the way the old French CRS did things when I lived there: groups of 2 or 3, semi-automatics and handguns at the ready, "f*** with me if you dare" look on their faces.

[vampiregenocide]

Originally Posted by Grand Moff Tim

What about beat cops on foot? Or is that not a thing in the UK?

We do have them of course, but I think guns should be limited to squad cars. We don't have a huge gun problem in the UK, so we don't need firearms, however they would be good for squad cars to have them incase. A squad car is more likely to be closer to a potential threat than an actual trained arms unit, so they can get backup quicker.

However, the police force and justice system in the UK needs a huge overhaul before we would ever think of adding guns into the equation. And unfortunately, with public service cuts being the way they are, that is a long way off. We need to teach people to respect the law anyway, not force them to fear it with weapons.

[Grand Moff Tim]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

We need to teach people to respect the law.

[vampiregenocide]

I don't even.

[Infinite Recursion]

I can't believe this shit: Apparently KFC killing chickens is worse then the slaughter of 90 ....ing youth.

[highlordmugfug]

Originally Posted by Infinite Recursion

I can't believe this shit: Apparently KFC killing chickens is worse then the slaughter of 90 ....ing youth.

They're both terrible, but there's no parallel.

Also: who the hell is Morrissey?

[Hemi-Powered Drone]

Originally Posted by highlordmugfug

They're both terrible, but there's no parallel.

Also: who the hell is Morrissey?

That's a good question?
Who the .... is Morrissey?

When I read that article I was waiting for an explanation of who he is, but for some reason they decided not to do it this time.

[Demiurge]

Morrissey:
1. Realize irrelevancy as it is no longer the 80's.
2. Make glib, stupid proclamations to get attention.
3. ?????
4. Profit*

*Not really

[Varcolac]

Originally Posted by dragonblade629

That's a good question?
Who the .... is Morrissey?

When I read that article I was waiting for an explanation of who he is, but for some reason they decided not to do it this time.

Morrissey was the singer for the Smiths, an 80s British alt-rock band. They were pretty good. Morrissey on the other hand is a borderline racist twat who opens his mouth without remembering to engage his brain.

[Murmel]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

Every squad car should have a pistol that is locked away until needed, that way a police officer is less likely to pull it out quickly and make a rash decision.

This is a good suggestion.
I just think it's sad that some cops are so ....ing retarded that they draw their gun for the smallest things. Every cop carrying a handgun would be awesome if it could work.

[MF_Kitten]

Morrisey is right, if we assume his values are correct. Sadly, for him, they aren't. His vegetarian/vegan idealism says that all creatures are equally valuable, ignoring the fact that value is non-existant and created by us, and is therefore relative and contextual. So while he thinks the chickens are worth the same as any human, he's really just a dumb .... who needs to spend some time alone in the african plains, where animals ....ing slay eachother ruthlessly, and hunt down young animals because they are easy targets.

Morrisey is just being a dumb .... who has no idea what weight goes behind the events he speaks of.

As for the religious debate, there is no point in trying to argue that he isn't a christian. How does one define that? Who gets to define that? If everyone could object to anyone's religion, then there would be no religious people, as everyone could be argued as not possibly belonging to their religion for X reasons.

[Demiurge]

Originally Posted by MF_Kitten

As for the religious debate, there is no point in trying to argue that he isn't a christian. How does one define that? Who gets to define that? If everyone could object to anyone's religion, then there would be no religious people, as everyone could be argued as not possibly belonging to their religion for X reasons.

I see what you mean, but one the other hand, there would technically also be no religious people if religions had absolutely no definition, either.

Certainly, to claim to be a member of a religion, one must claim to have made some sort of metaphysical beliefs/commitments. If a person's actions imply that they don't truly believe these things deep-down, then it's fair to point-out that the person either is a bad Christian/Buddhist/Pastafarian/etc. or that indeed their actions sit outside of what the Christian/Buddhist/Pastafarian/etc. community believes to be in-line with their beliefs.

Of course, I'm a cynic who believes that people are always going to put their self-interest first. That could mean "breaking character" with their beliefs to suit convenience, using the religious identify to appear to belong to communities they otherwise would not, or even twisting-around their beliefs to make it center around them (i.e. God chose me to do this).

[Scar Symmetry]

Originally Posted by MF_Kitten

Morrisey is right, if we assume his values are correct. Sadly, for him, they aren't. His vegetarian/vegan idealism says that all creatures are equally valuable, ignoring the fact that value is non-existant and created by us, and is therefore relative and contextual. So while he thinks the chickens are worth the same as any human, he's really just a dumb .... who needs to spend some time alone in the african plains, where animals ....ing slay eachother ruthlessly, and hunt down young animals because they are easy targets.

Not sure I agree with this. Are you saying that the reason that humans aren't the same as animals is because they are the same?

Value is created by us true, but we are also categorically not in the same league as animals. We are so advanced, so self-aware, so morally obtuse that we cannot be lumped in with animals.

Biologically we are 100% animal and should try to treat ourselves that way in regards to food and excersize, but when it comes to ethics in the way we should treat other species it gets very complicated.

It's quite tricky to say with a straight face that the reason that a chicken isn't the same value as a human is because value is a human ethic system.

[chronocide]

Originally Posted by MF_Kitten

he's really just a dumb .... who needs to spend some time alone in the african plains, where animals ....ing slay eachother ruthlessly, and hunt down young animals because they are easy targets.

What would that demonstrate? That carnivores eat meat and that animals with limited dietary options take what's easiest.

We aren't carnivores and we have, for the most part, the ability to choose what we eat so it's really a silly example that people make.

Originally Posted by Murmel

I would love to see some of those statistics, link them if you know any links And I'm not talking stuff like automatic weapons, just a simple pistol.
I think that the Swedish police carry a pistol at all times. I am not 100% on this though.

I'm trying to dig up some stuff I can link or copy and paste, I have lots of figures in books here but I'm not typing tons out