ITT: People who can't take a joke

[SirMyghin]

This is gone all weird now.

[Adam Of Angels]

Orb has been blessed with the ability to read/hear things that people aren't saying and then go off about it. That's what I've gathered from this thread. Sadly, nothing else of interest has taken place here.

[daemon barbeque]

Originally Posted by orb451

Nothing wrong with helping people at face value, but unfortunately *some* people will take the help and never help themselves. They *don't* want a hand-up, they want a hand-out. Gimme gimme gimme. And then there's some that even with the best of intentions, accept a hand-up, and then screw it up, and blow it, and then end up hating the system and getting discouraged too easily.

Help is a good thing, so is charity, but people should never, EVER rely on them to succeed or exist as the basis of their lives. And *some* do. That's my only issue.

I actaully support two of your opinions presented in this thread.
1) The most talented should be getting on top
2) There are people who get more and not give back.

Where we disagree is, how a "talented" person can know if he/she is talented without proper education, equal possibilities of presentation.
The people who get more and not give back are the strongest and biggest corporations.
in year 2006, Mercedes Benz payed less tax than the cleaning personal work for them!!!
In year 2007, BMW made it's highest income ever, and told the Government tax officers to .... off, or they would leave Germany and 15 000 workers.

The Tax payed for the social equality and public healthcare is mostly payed by the Hard Working people, who don't have the chance to climb higher, even not have enough power to search for a better job.
The Wealthy does not pay enough tax to support the system. They may created jobs, but they earn more than the person who got the job. Taxcuts, subventions etc are bonus. Oh and when they .... up, we pay the bailout!

[Guitarman700]

What the hell happened in here?!
This has taken a turn for the bizarre.

[McKay]

Originally Posted by chronocide

Synergy got me.

Of course I don't. But if all had an identical starting point then meritocracy could exist - and that's the ONLY way it ever could.

But that's inherently unfair because a true, equal meritocracy rewards natural ability over all else.

[Scar Symmetry]

Whichever Mod did this, I love you.

[chronocide]

Originally Posted by McKay

But that's inherently unfair because a true, equal meritocracy rewards natural ability over all else.

I'm not sure what point you're making here? Or how my statement is unfair? It is the only way in which it could be fair.

[orb451]

And no one can address why, as in my guitar collection example, a person with a lot, should be compelled to give to those with a little, arbitrarily.

I thought we were having a discussion, but apparently some people can't handle it...

[Ryan-ZenGtr-]

I think I've worked it out;

Liberals complain about corporate fat cats predating on the poor an using "charitable foundations", off shore banking tax havens and assorted to syphon their money away from the tax system.

Conservatives complain about lazy people... In general... with a focus on the poor.

Wrong? Just my observations from a few threads here.

@orb: Let the guitar analogy go, dude

There's enough reality to discuss without inventing things.

Go read Ayn Rand's "on the shoulders of giants"... Pro de regulation fiction / agenda.



Love the new thread name! <3

Zeig Zeig 1776!!!

[orb451]

Can one of the mods please close my account?

Randy - .... off buddy, if you want to hide behind your mod status like a little bitch, you go right ahead. If you want to make your e-penis bigger by playing childish pranks, go right ahead. I thought better of you and I guess I was wrong, we had some good debates, it's a shame what power does to an individual. Oh and if I'm mistaken and it was the guy below, my apologies!

Eaeolian - You can go .... yourself too shit dick. I don't think I've ever gotten along with you. Your debates always consisted of "there's a white elephant in the room" that no one but you was talking about . Hope you grow up some day.

Max - You're one of the best, most helpful guys on here. Keep it up bro.

Technomancer - Never had any issues with you man, stay frosty

The rest of you folks and you know exactly who you are that I enjoyed debating/discussing, thank you. It's been real.

Some of you pinko/commie/liberal/so and so's have been a real challenge and a real pleasure to chat/debate with. Some of you still sound like misguided, angst ridden 20 somethings.

A few of you in particular I'll never understand and really don't need to.

Be sure to grab a screen cap of this before it's changed to "mod edit" TL;DR or some other bullshit. Get over yourselves and your ADD gents, I think there's meds for that I suggest you stay on them Make a meme out of this!

Conservatives on here, keep fighting the good fight. Don't let these limp dick hippies have the last word. Those whom I especially enjoyed chatting with should know how to reach me. If not, hit me up off-site on one of the other forums.

"...say goodnight to the bad guy"

[renzoip]

Originally Posted by orb451

Look at the high taxes with the guitar analogy again. Say you have a whole collection of guitars (10 or more for arguments sake) that you worked your ass off for, why should you feel compelled or *be* compelled by government or law, to give up 4 or 5 of them because someone else wants them? Or, say they don't even want them, what if they just want to sell them and use that money for other crap. Think about it. You LOVE those guitars. They're your tools, they bring you happiness and joy, why would you willingly give them up?

Now lets say you *inherited* a collection of guitars from a dead uncle. Same scenario, you've got a bunch on your hands and each one is like a color on an artists palette. They still bring you joy and you *have* an attachment to them, even if you didn't put your blood sweat and tears scrounging to save for them. They still mean something so why would you give 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 of them away?

Lastly, what if you studied, went to school or took a class and *learned* how to build your own guitars? You poured your heart and soul into making these guitars and crafting them precisely till the end product was a beastly machine, why again, would you want to give up the fruits of your hard work? You bought the tools to make them, you educated yourself on how to build them correctly, and the end result is stunning. Why give that up??? Why should the small luthiers feel compelled to give away their products for free, simply because someone is going without?

Now I know some will say, well guitars aren't a necessity, people can and do exist without them, they're just guitars. That's fine. Hopefully no one's going there, but if you were tempted to, *obviously* just substitute guitars for MONEY.

Actually, any analogy that involves personal property is a pretty bad formulated analogy and hardly representative of how taxes work. Again, the taxing system is meant to make the *means of production* more available to the public and help provide a basic safety net for the public; the public includes you. That means, it's not your just your personal property or money that's being given up, and it is being invested in public institutions that are there to serve everyone, not just having the government hand your money to some lazy bum, as the right wing folk tries to make you believe.

Believe it or not, some people love nice roads, good public schools, nice public healthcare, social security, etc. So they fund them through taxes. Also, I love how the rightwing folk always uses the example of the small guy working hard to improve his life. That's nice and all but it's not the reality of the majority of big corporations and the rich people that are behind them. Many of them make their profits make their money by taking advantage of poor people's necessity to feed their families, usually overseas, usually displaced from their land and original means of production, usually plundering other people's non-renewable resources, usually working with oppressive right wing government run by elites who work for US interests rather than for the well being of their people.... not exactly what I call "honest hard work" or even "business"

[chronocide]

I don't really understand what's gone on here. A mod has gone through editing Orbs posts in a effort to be witty?

[Adam Of Angels]

Originally Posted by orb451

Be sure to grab a screen cap of this before it's changed to "mod edit" TL;DR or some other bullshit. Get over yourselves and your ADD gents, I think there's meds for that I suggest you stay on them Make a meme out of this!

"Get over yourselves" - you're saying this, yet you think somebody might care about this enough to screen capture it, and save it in their archives. Woah. Hypocrite, much?

Anyway, I've had enough agreeable arguments with you that I don't hate you or anything, I just think your ability to see the other side of the argument is poor at times. Not my place to judge, just sharing my opinion.

[ArkaneDemon]

Originally Posted by orb451

Can one of the mods please close my account?

Randy - .... off buddy, if you want to hide behind your mod status like a little bitch, you go right ahead. If you want to make your e-penis bigger by playing childish pranks, go right ahead. I thought better of you and I guess I was wrong, we had some good debates, it's a shame what power does to an individual. Oh and if I'm mistaken and it was the guy below, my apologies!

Eaeolian - You can go .... yourself too shit dick. I don't think I've ever gotten along with you. Your debates always consisted of "there's a white elephant in the room" that no one but you was talking about . Hope you grow up some day.

Max - You're one of the best, most helpful guys on here. Keep it up bro.

Technomancer - Never had any issues with you man, stay frosty

The rest of you folks and you know exactly who you are that I enjoyed debating/discussing, thank you. It's been real.

Some of you pinko/commie/liberal/so and so's have been a real challenge and a real pleasure to chat/debate with. Some of you still sound like misguided, angst ridden 20 somethings.

A few of you in particular I'll never understand and really don't need to.

Be sure to grab a screen cap of this before it's changed to "mod edit" TL;DR or some other bullshit. Get over yourselves and your ADD gents, I think there's meds for that I suggest you stay on them Make a meme out of this!

Conservatives on here, keep fighting the good fight. Don't let these limp dick hippies have the last word. Those whom I especially enjoyed chatting with should know how to reach me. If not, hit me up off-site on one of the other forums.

"...say goodnight to the bad guy"

I open up PCE and I see this thread title that I haven't seen before, yet it has 10 pages of replies and...I don't remember replying in here...and then I open it up and I realized what happened, and now orb is leaving?

Who saw this coming? Cause I didn't

[Ryan-ZenGtr-]

...And on that bombshell....




Come back Orb!!!

[SirMyghin]

Originally Posted by ArkaneDemon

I open up PCE and I see this thread title that I haven't seen before, yet it has 10 pages of replies and...I don't remember replying in here...and then I open it up and I realized what happened, and now orb is leaving?

Who saw this coming? Cause I didn't

I wish I could look on it with the same mirth you possess. The whole deal sits a bit sour.

[Customisbetter]

I bet Randy won't ban Orb out of spite.

C'mon guys chill out. We are friends here.

[Scar Symmetry]

Originally Posted by orb451

Can one of the mods please close my account?

Randy - .... off buddy, if you want to hide behind your mod status like a little bitch, you go right ahead. If you want to make your e-penis bigger by playing childish pranks, go right ahead. I thought better of you and I guess I was wrong, we had some good debates, it's a shame what power does to an individual. Oh and if I'm mistaken and it was the guy below, my apologies!

Eaeolian - You can go .... yourself too shit dick. I don't think I've ever gotten along with you. Your debates always consisted of "there's a white elephant in the room" that no one but you was talking about . Hope you grow up some day.

Max - You're one of the best, most helpful guys on here. Keep it up bro.

Technomancer - Never had any issues with you man, stay frosty

The rest of you folks and you know exactly who you are that I enjoyed debating/discussing, thank you. It's been real.

Some of you pinko/commie/liberal/so and so's have been a real challenge and a real pleasure to chat/debate with. Some of you still sound like misguided, angst ridden 20 somethings.

A few of you in particular I'll never understand and really don't need to.

Be sure to grab a screen cap of this before it's changed to "mod edit" TL;DR or some other bullshit. Get over yourselves and your ADD gents, I think there's meds for that I suggest you stay on them Make a meme out of this!

Conservatives on here, keep fighting the good fight. Don't let these limp dick hippies have the last word. Those whom I especially enjoyed chatting with should know how to reach me. If not, hit me up off-site on one of the other forums.

"...say goodnight to the bad guy"

Hurt much? Christ orb you've just utterly destroyed everything you've ever said on this forum in one post. The whole time you've been demanding to be taken seriously and insisting that you are mature and therefore your argument holds more water. I'd expect this from a 15 year old but from someone who is 35? Come the .... on man.

...or have I just been trolled hard and your entire post was a mod edit?

[ArkaneDemon]

Originally Posted by SirMyghin

The whole deal sits a bit sour.

Originally Posted by Scar Symmetry

...or have I just been trolled hard and your entire post was a mod edit?

Only time will tell if we just got extremely trolled.

[Konfyouzd]

Originally Posted by chronocide

I think most people do. But lots of them also understand that it is impossible to achieve as long as there are massive discrepancies in where people start off from, a situation which the small government and free market model holds in place.

Hmm... Perhaps it'd be called something different, but I agree with both you and Orb on this one. I think we can have meritocracy despite our differences in origin. The outcome will never be the same for everyone and I see that as being the beauty of the situation.

In my eyes, meritocracy would be removing biases/prejudices/ego/what-have-you from decisions made with regards to dealing out opportunities.

For example:

Person A started off wealthy.

Person B started off less fortunate.

Naturally the two will have different experiences and in general the types of opportunities extended to either person will--for the most part--be different. However, should the two of them stumble upon the same opportunity they should be granted the opportunity on merit. Person A shouldn't just get it automatically because of his prestigious background and Person B shouldn't get it because you feel bad for them. The opportunity should be granted based solely on which of the two is more deserving.

I can neither confirm nor deny whether or not this is the case nor do I know the frequency with which it is or isn't, but this is what I see as meritocracy.

Frankly, this whole thread seems like a big perspective argument. Thus, I submit this... The word "success" can mean a lot of things depending on your perspective and having different opportunities than the next man doesn't necessarily make you any less "successful" unless you perceive it to be so.

[Stealthdjentstic]

That was a real post, he PM'd me his email address, if anybody wants to keep in touch with him or anything shoot me a PM and I'll forward it to you.

That's really too bad though, I didn't see that coming...at all :\

[synrgy]

Originally Posted by Stealthtastic

That was a real post, he PM'd me his email address, if anybody wants to keep in touch with him or anything shoot me a PM and I'll forward it to you.

That's really too bad though, I didn't see that coming...at all :\

Yeah. He sent me a brief goodbye via PM and we've exchanged emails for future interaction. Is what it is.

[Konfyouzd]

I PM'd him and he no write back...

Forever alone...

[chronocide]

Originally Posted by Konfyouzd

Naturally the two will have different experiences and in general the types of opportunities extended to either person will--for the most part--be different. However, should the two of them stumble upon the same opportunity they should be granted the opportunity on merit. Person A shouldn't just get it automatically because of his prestigious background and Person B shouldn't get it because you feel bad for them. The opportunity should be granted based solely on which of the two is more deserving.

Yep that should be the case. And is, in many instances. But in many others it isn't at all.

But the problem is the differences in the opportunities that are presented, rather than whether they're treated in the few that are presented to people of disparate backgrounds, obviously.

[Konfyouzd]

I don't think I completely understood what you said in that last sentence. Rephrase please?