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Unread 01-17-2011, 09:35 AM   #1
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Infanticide in Pakistan

Killings of newborn babies on the rise in Pakistan - Yahoo! News

WTF is wrong with these people?
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Unread 01-17-2011, 10:26 AM   #2
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What a great follow up to killing a elected official because he was involved in a rectification/removal of the blasphemy law.

Wonderful place they have there.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 10:31 AM   #3
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What a great follow up to killing a elected official because he was involved in a rectification/removal of the blasphemy law.

Wonderful place they have there.
Read about that today in Time magazine. Absolutely mental.

Islam is the most bigoted religion there is. There are bigots in every religion, but Islam stands tall above the others in this aspect IMO.

What happened to Jeff? Funny how he dropped off the radar now that the entire Western world disagrees with his right wing bullshit.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 10:46 AM   #4
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In all fairness, this practice has more to do with ancient social practices than Islam itself, and it is the fact that Islam gets amalgamated with some very violent pre-historic practices from various parts of the world that give the religion such a bad reputation.

That said, I do not think that Christians were ever quite this bad, even in the dark ages, when they burned people at the stake, tarred and feathered, or yanked people's tongues out.

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Unread 01-17-2011, 01:30 PM   #5
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In all fairness, this practice has more to do with ancient social practices than Islam itself, and it is the fact that Islam gets amalgamated with some very violent pre-historic practices from various parts of the world that give the religion such a bad reputation.

That said, I do not think that Christians were ever quite this bad, even in the dark ages, when they burned people at the stake, tarred and feathered, or yanked people's tongues out.
Christian's were this bad, but that stopped a long time ago. This is a completely different time, we should have put this behind us.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 01:50 PM   #6
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Christian's were this bad, but that stopped a long time ago. This is a completely different time, we should have put this behind us.
This, the fact that Islam (in its home states and many migrants) puts itself beyond reproach in everything it does, and refuses to accept any other world view is a form of intolerance associated with a culture rooted in barbarism. It is hardly relevant if it comes from societies it has assimilated, but the fact it is allowed to continue as common place that is sickening. It is hard to feel anything good for a culture that supports murder if it furthers their means.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 01:58 PM   #7
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As mentioned, lets not blame it all on Islam. A lot of the Islamic faith is very peaceful and good, but there are some archaic and unusual beliefs in it that people have held on to and run with. This isn't just a problem with Islam, its culture in general. The Middle East as a whole is very backwards, and isn't in the same time as the rest of the world. Even most of Africa, still pretty underdeveloped, is more advanced than many areas of the Middle East.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 03:18 PM   #8
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My general rule of thumb is that Islam came ~500 years after Christianity so it is ~500 years behind in relative development. What was Christianity doing ~500 years ago?
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Unread 01-17-2011, 03:56 PM   #9
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just terrible really, no other way to describe it.

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Unread 01-17-2011, 05:02 PM   #10
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The Middle East as a whole is very backwards, and isn't in the same time as the rest of the world. Even most of Africa, still pretty underdeveloped, is more advanced than many areas of the Middle East.
Gonna have to disagree with you here, dude. The degree to which I disagree depends on the definition of Middle East we're using, though.

If we use the traditional definition, which includes, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Egypt, Yemen, Oman, Bahrain, Qatar, Turkey, the UAE, Iraq and Iran, then I disagree pretty strongly. Several of those countries (mostly the smaller gulf countries) are anything but backwards and underdeveloped, certainly not to the extent that much of africa is. The biggest problems areas, Iraq and Iran, aren't at all representative of the rest of the region.

If we expand it to the G8 definition of the Greater Middle East, it gets a little more confusing. That includes Afghanistan and Pakistan, which apparently can be seen as fairly backwards, but aren't even included in the definition of the Middle East by everybody. It also includes pretty much all of North Africa, so comparing it to Africa is comparing it to... itself.

There's a third expanded definition that includes the Caucasus region and Central Asia, but I know next to nothing about those areas, so... there's that.

At any rate, I say all this mostly because I've grown pretty tired of seeing people go on about how awful and backwards the Middle East is, and how terrible and bigoted muslims are (not that you were saying that). As part of my last job I had to familiarize myself with the region, and I found a fascinating culture with some of the nicest people I've ever met.

I know, I know, the plural of anecdote isn't data, it's just this is a pet peeve of mine. People see nothing but the negative news reports of shitty incidents like that mentioned in this thread, and it somehow spreads to a negative view of an entire region comprising over twenty countries. I don't suppose I can expect the media to make efforts to portray anything positive about the region, so the problem will persist and I'll keep grumbling under my breath every time I see it.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 05:06 PM   #11
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The guys who try to stop it and try to save the babies are Muslims too!

The View | The Vatican Aproves abortion when it comes to thier own wrong doing!!

Doesn't look like these guys are much better. And they do it in the name of God !

The times of KKK are not far away, the genocide in Bosnia is not far away either. Israel is killing in the name of their religion, no matter kid or old. It's not only in the middle east.
Look, abortion is forbidden in Poland, so people "put" their newborns to the Churches. If churches wouldn't accept them, they would do the same.

I agree that todays islam is violent, so are other religions, but this particular situation is no sign of anything about Islam. It's about human, ignorance, fear and death.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 05:28 PM   #12
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What the hell is wrong with these people? Leaving babies in landplots when they could at least ....ing eat them, it saves land space and money for food. Their lack of innovation astounds me.

Okay, sarcasm aside since I do find this to be a seriously appalling subject. It's a ....ing baby for ....'s sake. I can understand if you don't want a child but just to abandon it in a landfill? What the ....?! At least give the child a chance to live, maybe even with someone who can't have a child? I know a few couples in my area that would love to have a baby but are sterile and people over there just throw theirs away like it's a piece of garbage.

...., this brings my misanthropy back full scale and I was doing so well.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 06:02 PM   #13
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What astounds me is every single time something like this is brought up, almost immediately, it becomes a proverbial dick-measuring contest between Islam and other faiths, predominantly Christianity and/or Catholicism.

My point to this thread is to reflect on the atrocity. And yet, it always seems to bring apologists and those that say that Islam is no better or no worse, than any other religion. That may be true to a certain degree, but why must it always be a finger pointing contest? What the .... do things happening TODAY in Pakistan have to do with Christianity 500 years ago?

Nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

No comparisons are needed. No juxtaposition of Islam with other religions is needed. No justifications are needed. And most importantly, no free passes should be doled out like candy. What they're doing is wrong. They're doing it in the name of their religion. That's atrocious. If you want to compare it to Christianity or things that have happened in other religions, past or present, save it for another thread.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 06:14 PM   #14
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Well said. It doesn't change the fact that this is happening.

OT: For some reason this brought to mind the American soldiers throwing the puppy of the cliff scandal and how everyone was incredibly offended by that. I was more offended by the fact that if that were to be a person in the place of the dog, it wouldn't have created as nearly as big of a shitstorm. In simple terms, if it was a person, not nearly as many people would have cared about it. That pisses me off.

The reason why it reminded me of this is because practically all of these babies are women, that doesn't make them any less of a person. God dammit.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 06:14 PM   #15
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I don't think anyone here was doling out free passes...
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Unread 01-17-2011, 06:17 PM   #16
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@Orb: I think the reason people bring other religions into the discussion because they know that if they don't say it, someone will call them out on it. Better to have shown where you stand on a matter than for someone to erroneously assume that you are condemning one party but condoning another.

What happened to Jeff? Funny how he dropped off the radar now that the entire Western world disagrees with his right wing bullshit.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 06:41 PM   #17
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Gonna have to disagree with you here, dude. The degree to which I disagree depends on the definition of Middle East we're using, though.

If we use the traditional definition, which includes, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Egypt, Yemen, Oman, Bahrain, Qatar, Turkey, the UAE, Iraq and Iran, then I disagree pretty strongly. Several of those countries (mostly the smaller gulf countries) are anything but backwards and underdeveloped, certainly not to the extent that much of africa is. The biggest problems areas, Iraq and Iran, aren't at all representative of the rest of the region.

If we expand it to the G8 definition of the Greater Middle East, it gets a little more confusing. That includes Afghanistan and Pakistan, which apparently can be seen as fairly backwards, but aren't even included in the definition of the Middle East by everybody. It also includes pretty much all of North Africa, so comparing it to Africa is comparing it to... itself.

There's a third expanded definition that includes the Caucasus region and Central Asia, but I know next to nothing about those areas, so... there's that.

At any rate, I say all this mostly because I've grown pretty tired of seeing people go on about how awful and backwards the Middle East is, and how terrible and bigoted muslims are (not that you were saying that). As part of my last job I had to familiarize myself with the region, and I found a fascinating culture with some of the nicest people I've ever met.

I know, I know, the plural of anecdote isn't data, it's just this is a pet peeve of mine. People see nothing but the negative news reports of shitty incidents like that mentioned in this thread, and it somehow spreads to a negative view of an entire region comprising over twenty countries. I don't suppose I can expect the media to make efforts to portray anything positive about the region, so the problem will persist and I'll keep grumbling under my breath every time I see it.
Okay fair play, I probably shouldn't have said 'as a whole'; there is a sizeable handful of countries in that region that are an issue.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 06:47 PM   #18
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Okay fair play, I probably shouldn't have said 'as a whole'; there is a sizeable handful of countries in that region that are an issue.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 06:56 PM   #19
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Nuke the middle east.



(that was sarcasim by the way )

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Unread 01-17-2011, 08:10 PM   #20
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@Orb: I think the reason people bring other religions into the discussion because they know that if they don't say it, someone will call them out on it. Better to have shown where you stand on a matter than for someone to erroneously assume that you are condemning one party but condoning another.
I hear ya man, but it shouldn't be needed. We shouldn't need giant disclaimers and pro-active defense for our own thoughts and opinions.

The people pulling off these baby killings are morons. And they happen to be Muslim. And they happen to be from Pakistan. The only thing that really concerns me is their warped religious justification for their actions.

I'm sure anyone can create a nice laundry list of atrocities from other faiths... that's fine, but my point and ire, is about this particular incident.

Tomorrow when something else comes up as news, and the people involved happen to be bass ackwards Christians or what have you, we can all point in disgust at those idiots. Till then, I see no need to go out of my way bashing or bringing other faiths into this discussion. Wrong is wrong across the board, no matter who's doing it.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 09:43 PM   #21
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Don't take this post seriously
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Unread 01-17-2011, 10:19 PM   #22
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Well, it's all part of economic desperation and political instability.

How did Christendom and the Islamic Empire compare in the 8th century?
Well, the Islamic Empire had one of the most tolerant, progressive societies of the day and produced some of the greatest science, philosophy, and literature the world has seen while Europe was all Beowulf and shit. Now we are wealthy and progressive while they are poor and backwards. It's as simple as that...

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Unread 01-17-2011, 10:37 PM   #23
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sarcasim


Pakistan is also not in the middle east.
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Unread 01-18-2011, 05:18 AM   #24
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I hear ya man, but it shouldn't be needed. We shouldn't need giant disclaimers and pro-active defense for our own thoughts and opinions.

The people pulling off these baby killings are morons. And they happen to be Muslim. And they happen to be from Pakistan. The only thing that really concerns me is their warped religious justification for their actions.

I'm sure anyone can create a nice laundry list of atrocities from other faiths... that's fine, but my point and ire, is about this particular incident.

Tomorrow when something else comes up as news, and the people involved happen to be bass ackwards Christians or what have you, we can all point in disgust at those idiots. Till then, I see no need to go out of my way bashing or bringing other faiths into this discussion. Wrong is wrong across the board, no matter who's doing it.
Are you aware of where we are? This is the internetz!

I agree that we shouldn't have to, but that's not the way it appears to me. I'll take your advice and omit any self-shielding statements next time, see how it pans out

As for "wrong is wrong"... I won't get into that, I have an annoyingly lengthy POV on the matter

What happened to Jeff? Funny how he dropped off the radar now that the entire Western world disagrees with his right wing bullshit.
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Unread 01-18-2011, 08:50 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by orb451 View Post
What astounds me is every single time something like this is brought up, almost immediately, it becomes a proverbial dick-measuring contest between Islam and other faiths, predominantly Christianity and/or Catholicism.

My point to this thread is to reflect on the atrocity. And yet, it always seems to bring apologists and those that say that Islam is no better or no worse, than any other religion. That may be true to a certain degree, but why must it always be a finger pointing contest? What the .... do things happening TODAY in Pakistan have to do with Christianity 500 years ago?

Nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

No comparisons are needed. No juxtaposition of Islam with other religions is needed. No justifications are needed. And most importantly, no free passes should be doled out like candy. What they're doing is wrong. They're doing it in the name of their religion. That's atrocious. If you want to compare it to Christianity or things that have happened in other religions, past or present, save it for another thread.
That is not what's happening man. I posted an answer to Scar's "Islam is the most bigoted" post.

Every time something happens in an Islamic country, or something bad done by a Muslim, we here how Islam is bad and ....ed up.
A guy kills 20 people in school, and happens to be Christian, we never hear about how bad Christianity is!

If this wouldn't be the case, some of us wouldn't have to respond to clear the facts!
daemon barbeque is offline   Reply With Quote
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