[noodles]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14535192/site/newsweek/

[Shannon]

See your current president. Enough said.

[Leon]

"your"? he came from your state!

[zimbloth]

America gets what it deserves. He got elected, TWICE. It never should have even been so close. Sure the democrat candidates werent brilliant either, but you could have assumed the regime they would have brought along with them wouldnt have been THIS bad.

Boooooo using fear, religion and "values" to confuse dumbass Americans. [/Red Stripe guy]

[ChrisPcritter]

I will have to disagree. The article said nothing about the republicans starting this and if I recall correctly pres clinton opened up trades and lowered tarrifs on china. As well as pushing NAFTA through which took a lot of jobs south of the border. Look at fender, most of there guitars and amps seem to come from mexico now. I wish we could find someone in the middle. And not a Ross Perot type either. He wanted to raise the tax on gas fifty cents. who would that hurt, not the rich just the working class and poor folks.

[Azyiu]

This T-shirt says it all!

http://www.tshirthell.com/store/prod...?productid=704

[Leon]

^ LOL

that's kinda wrong

[cadenhead]

Originally Posted by ChrisPcritter

I will have to disagree. The article said nothing about the republicans starting this and if I recall correctly pres clinton opened up trades and lowered tarrifs on china. As well as pushing NAFTA through which took a lot of jobs south of the border. Look at fender, most of there guitars and amps seem to come from mexico now. I wish we could find someone in the middle. And not a Ross Perot type either. He wanted to raise the tax on gas fifty cents. who would that hurt, not the rich just the working class and poor folks.

True. The article aslo stated that this problem sems from the Chinese government allowing international trade within manufacturing, but not it's banking system.

They got themselvs into that mess. Though, that doesn't mean that the US is completly without blame as well.

[noodles]

Originally Posted by ChrisPcritter

I will have to disagree. The article said nothing about the republicans starting this and if I recall correctly pres clinton opened up trades and lowered tarrifs on china. As well as pushing NAFTA through which took a lot of jobs south of the border. Look at fender, most of there guitars and amps seem to come from mexico now. I wish we could find someone in the middle. And not a Ross Perot type either. He wanted to raise the tax on gas fifty cents. who would that hurt, not the rich just the working class and poor folks.

I wasn't referring to the trade agreements as much as I was referring to the Republican's practice of borrowing money from Chinese banks to pay for the government's operating expenses. That is just about the most tactically stupid idea I could ever think of. Never borrow money from a hostile nation, and anyone who thinks China is not hostile towards us obviously hasn't been paying attention to the last fifty years of world history.

[ChrisPcritter]

Originally Posted by noodles

I wasn't referring to the trade agreements as much as I was referring to the Republican's practice of borrowing money from Chinese banks to pay for the government's operating expenses. That is just about the most tactically stupid idea I could ever think of. Never borrow money from a hostile nation, and anyone who thinks China is not hostile towards us obviously hasn't been paying attention to the last fifty years of world history.

The article actually says it's been an ongoing problem for 25 years and I actually read it a little more carefully this time and found no reference to the republicans borrowing money from china. Only saying that china held US treasury bonds. I believe a lot of those years we had a democrat in the white house and controlling things and was even sharing classified info with china in exchange for campaign contributions.

I don't believe it was just the republicans. It kind of reminds me of the Iraq sitiuation and the news which kept reporting no weapons of mass destruction were found and then right before the re election time came out and said a bunch of weapons of mass destruction were missing. It's about like dealing with my kids most of the time. One comes to tell me that the other one hit her and after checking its because "well she was pulling my hair" Sorry back on topic. The trade agreement is at the center of the issue. If you lower taxes or tarrifs on a countries incoming products and cause an imbalance of funds over comerce then you have pretty much screwed yourself from the
get go. So do I think it's a dumb idea to borrow money from china HELL YES bad republicans, but remember the democrats started the ball rolling on this stupid thing.
While I am very open minded about things concerning music and art (as long as it doesn't involve desicrating a flag) I think our country and our youth are better served to keep things more conservative in our morals, values, and attitude toward others. So I am neither a devout conservative nor a democrat hater, actually I think the best person to hold the office of president in my life time was Jimmy Carter who has gone on to do great things with habitat for humanity and other worthy organizations. Not trying to diss your opinion, just throwing in my two cents...