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Unread 12-10-2010, 06:54 PM   #26
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They've been doing billboards somewhat like these for a while now every Christmas.
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Unread 12-10-2010, 06:59 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scar Symmetry View Post
'Knowing' that you're 'right' is a very flimsy position that people seem to assume is very sturdy. Look at science - things often presented to us as fact often change once we gain new knowledge. That's the way life works; you only ever know as much as you know at the time of question and sticking to that position for whatever reason is entirely pointless because you will gain better knowledge at a later time. Just being open to change can make a huge difference, not only to yourself but to others too.
Exactly man, I mean theres this assumption that science is correct and we should all live our lives according to it. Yeah, its the best thing to go by, but can you have faith in science? Can you learn morality from it? No, because its just processed evidence. Thats where religion has the upper hand. They're all stories written to inspire, to teach us the correct way to live our life. They were never meant to be taken literally, but to be treated like stories with morals. Unfortunately people took them the wrong way, and their original use has long since been lost. I mean the texts are largely irrelevant and out of context compared to today, but if we treated them that way theres still a lot we could learn from them universally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
So, you're pissed at the outspoken atheists in question for being like outspoken Christians... and, at the same time, you are stating how you believe someone should act, and that those who move beyond what you decree acceptable are... intolerable.

*laugh*

Irony is everywhere... and so is intolerance.
Do I go around telling people they're wrong? Do I make billboards and go on telly saying how everyone is wrong and I'm not? No, because like I said, people are better left to it and that would be hypocritical of me. We are however, having a discussion and I feel my opinion on how people should be behave could be useful. I'm not saying anyone has to listen to me. I think you need to see m points in context compared to the story the OP posted. At the end of teh day, I have an opinion, and of course I believe in my opinion and I would be biased towards people feeling the same. But if you don't .... it, it don't bother me.
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:02 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by vampiregenocide View Post
Exactly man, I mean theres this assumption that science is correct and we should all live our lives according to it. Yeah, its the best thing to go by, but can you have faith in science? Can you learn morality from it? No, because its just processed evidence. Thats where religion has the upper hand. They're all stories written to inspire, to teach us the correct way to live our life. They were never meant to be taken literally, but to be treated like stories with morals. Unfortunately people took them the wrong way, and their original use has long since been lost. I mean the texts are largely irrelevant and out of context compared to today, but if we treated them that way theres still a lot we could learn from them universally.
Aye, there's a lot to be said from learning from each other rather than rejecting people because *some* of their ideals don't match ours.

What happened to Jeff? Funny how he dropped off the radar now that the entire Western world disagrees with his right wing bullshit.
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:03 PM   #29
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:07 PM   #30
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Seriously, Ross wins this thread. (though I thought that Steve Hughes vid is hilarious. )

Look I get that these people are atheist. It's pretty obvious. I'm as equally offended by the billboard in the OP as I am when I see people trying to "persuade" me to come to a church on christmas eve so I can sit through a boring ass play on "the real meaning" of christmas. I'm a christian myself, but I see the Atheists in the OP pulling a double standard here. They are all about "don't cram your useless, outdated religion down my throat, which is just about a foot below my brilliant, intellectual mind" but then at the same time go out of their way to pull dick moves like that billboard or go on long rants about how I'm wrong, dumb, and superstitious whenever they hear I'm christian. FFS, guys like the people that made that billboard are almost as bad as those freaks in the Westboro Baptist "Church". I don't go out of my way to shit talk what you believe, so I see no reason to have to put up with that.

And Scar is right, the term "knowledge" is subjective due to that fact that we as a species are ALWAYS learning new things about the world and universe we live in. Consider back in the 12th century. Everyone KNEW that the Earth was flat. Everyone also KNEW the Earth was also the center of the Universe AND our Solar System. Human knowledge is a fallible as anything else, and what were sound theories at one point are being debunked all the time. Instead of calling it "knowledge", I believe we should stick with the phrase "what we've learned so far".


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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:11 PM   #31
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Exactly man, I mean theres this assumption that science is correct and we should all live our lives according to it. Yeah, its the best thing to go by, but can you have faith in science? Can you learn morality from it? No, because its just processed evidence. Thats where religion has the upper hand.
Morality is inside all of us. It was not invented in The Bible, and a lack of religion growing up does not cause a lack of morality. I am living proof of that. Though I will admit it is definitely useful in impoverished places, where morality is seldom seen when looking out the window.

Religion helps us get through the day and gives us hope, yes, but it also causes conflict and unnecessary global war and genocide (crusades, current war on terror, Israel/Palestine, etc.).

All I'm saying is, the bad outweighs the good.
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:11 PM   #32
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And Scar is right, the term "knowledge" is subjective due to that fact that we as a species are ALWAYS learning new things about the world and universe we live in. Consider back in the 12th century. Everyone KNEW that the Earth was flat. Everyone also KNEW the Earth was also the center of the Universe AND our Solar System. Human knowledge is a fallible as anything else, and what were sound theories at one point are being debunked all the time. Instead of calling it "knowledge", I believe we should stick with the phrase "what we've learned so far".

What happened to Jeff? Funny how he dropped off the radar now that the entire Western world disagrees with his right wing bullshit.
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:15 PM   #33
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If atheists really want to convert everyone to their way of thinking, then making science feel invasive, like some eveil threat here to destroy religion. is the wrong way. We should be celebrating the beauty of science. The fact that the whole human race could be condensed into a piece of matter small enough to fit in your hand is amazing, as is everything else about nature. That doesn't disprove God, if anything that shows there is majesty and perfection more amazing than we could ever comprehend. Who is to say that isn't divinity? Religion and science fall hand in hand, they try to make sense of things. If we can appreciate that, then we can strive forwards together and find maybe God is real. God is in the details, the molecules and fibres of you body. God isn't the catalyst of creation, God is creation, Science simply explains how.
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:16 PM   #34
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Morality is inside all of us. It was not invented in The Bible, and a lack of religion growing up does not cause a lack of morality. I am living proof of that. Though I will admit it is definitely useful in impoverished places, where morality is seldom seen when looking out the window.

Religion helps us get through the day and gives us hope, yes, but it also causes conflict and unnecessary global war and genocide (crusades, current war on terror, Israel/Palestine, etc.).

All I'm saying is, the bad outweighs the good.
Agreed, its sad we need a book to teach morality, but some people find it comfort and it works for them. And if something gives someone a sense of morality, who are we to knock that? Religion sure causes conflict, but those people aren't the masses and should be treated separately. We need to address the problem of the conlfict itself, not simply blame it on that religion as a whole.


I should add that its late and I'm starting to chat complete shit.
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:20 PM   #35
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:20 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vampiregenocide View Post
If atheists really want to convert everyone to their way of thinking, then making science feel invasive, like some eveil threat here to destroy religion. is the wrong way.
As long as the Separation of Church and State stays intact, I'm fine.

Yay founding fathers with foresight!
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:21 PM   #37
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Being completely atheist or completely religious are both stupid. Both state that they know for sure what the truth is while, at this moment in time, there isn't enough evidence to prove either the argument for the existence or non-existence of a deity.

While I myself am an atheist I am truly more of an agnostic atheist which pretty much means that, although I personally don't believe in a god or gods, I also have the intelligence to say that at this point in time, there isn't enough evidence to completely prove or disprove the existence of a god.

But, that being said, there is almost certainly no god out there, and although it can't be proven now, it will be proven in the future through scientific advancements and the exploration of the universe. Sticking to faith is petty and silly. Live your life as a good person, and if a god does exist and an afterlife does too, then you're pretty much in because you lived as a good person that made life better for those around.

If you, however, live your life as a good person and then after you die a god exists and won't let you in an afterlife because he says "you didn't believe in me", then he is a petty god and if this happens to me I'm glad I don't go into his shitty afterlife, because that guy would be a huge dick if he pulled that move.
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:22 PM   #38
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Quote:
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Religion and science fall hand in hand, they try to make sense of things.

What happened to Jeff? Funny how he dropped off the radar now that the entire Western world disagrees with his right wing bullshit.
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:24 PM   #39
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Religion and science fall hand in hand, they try to make sense of things.
Yes, except one does it through logic, reason and empirical evidence. The other is just making shit up and calling it fact without a shred of evidence except a book. I don't know, which is more trustworthy?
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:26 PM   #40
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Yes, except one does it through logic, reason and empirical evidence. The other is just making shit up and calling it fact without a shred of evidence except a book. I don't know, which is more trustworthy?
More to the point: which one comforts us throughout our lives and makes our lives easier to live and ourselves better people to be around?

What happened to Jeff? Funny how he dropped off the radar now that the entire Western world disagrees with his right wing bullshit.
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:27 PM   #41
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:27 PM   #42
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More to the point: which one comforts us throughout our lives and makes our lives easier to live and ourselves better people to be around?
If you need a book and fantasy to make it easier to live your life, that's pretty sad.
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:27 PM   #43
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No ones saying trust completely in either, but respect and learn from both. Theres elements in all religions that you can apply to your daily lives. And again 'making shit up' makes it sound like we should believe everything the bible says. Remember, its a collection of stories with morals, not a factual report.
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:28 PM   #44
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Its Christmas goddamit, every shut up and get to lovin each other.
I love you too
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:29 PM   #45
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No ones saying trust completely in either, but respect and learn from both. Theres elements in all religions that you can apply to your daily lives. And again 'making shit up' makes it sound like we should believe everything the bible says. Remember, its a collection of stories with morals, not a factual report.
Well, the amount of people that take the bible as absolutely, literal truth is pretty high, not to mention other religions like Islam which is quite militant with the Qu'ran, Sharia law, etc.
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:32 PM   #46
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Well, the amount of people that take the bible as absolutely, literal truth is pretty high, not to mention other religions like Islam which is quite militant with the Qu'ran, Sharia law, etc.
Some more so than others, but its still the minority generally. I'll admit to being a bit anti-Muslim myself because theres just so much shit surrounding that religion I don't really have time for it, but I know there are a lot of peaceful practitioners of it who treat it in a more modern, realistic manner.
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:33 PM   #47
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If you need a book and fantasy to make it easier to live your life, that's pretty sad.
A year ago I would've agreed with you. Now? I'm no Christian, but if someone chooses to be so I fully support them because this life can be immensely dark when you feel like you're alone. Sometimes it's not about logic, it's about what you need to get you through.

What happened to Jeff? Funny how he dropped off the radar now that the entire Western world disagrees with his right wing bullshit.
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:35 PM   #48
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If you need a book and fantasy to make it easier to live your life, that's pretty sad.
Thank you for proving my point in the first paragraph of my first post. I love it when people bash my belief system when I go out of my way not to do the same to theirs. My only rant was on the double standard that was made with that billboard.


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Its Christmas goddamit, every shut up and get to lovin each other.
That is what I believe to be the real meaning of christmas. But leave it to extremists on both sides of the table to .... it up for each other.


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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:36 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by vampiregenocide View Post
Some more so than others, but its still the minority generally. I'll admit to being a bit anti-Muslim myself because theres just so much shit surrounding that religion I don't really have time for it, but I know there are a lot of peaceful practitioners of it who treat it in a more modern, realistic manner.
Islam is lame (SEE WHAT I DID THERE? ) to me, but for the few people who are peaceful (and they are truly to be respected), there's far too many who are violent, hateful towards women, and then they go into other countries (like many European countries) and just straight up start bitching about how they're right and that said countries need Sharia law and courts and all this other shit.

It's disgusting and no one wants to stand up and say ".... you guys, you came here, you should respect OUR shit, instead of imposing your own twisted anti-humanitarian BS onto us" because they fear being called racist (when it's calling them up on their religion no their race, so wtf) and in the end no progress is ever made.

Still, when it comes to non-Islamic religions, indoctrination of children should be illegal, it's just twisted and ....ed up. No excuses.
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Unread 12-10-2010, 07:38 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by ArkaneDemon View Post
Being completely atheist or completely religious are both stupid. Both state that they know for sure what the truth is while, at this moment in time, there isn't enough evidence to prove either the argument for the existence or non-existence of a deity.

While I myself am an atheist I am truly more of an agnostic atheist which pretty much means that, although I personally don't believe in a god or gods, I also have the intelligence to say that at this point in time, there isn't enough evidence to completely prove or disprove the existence of a god.
More of this, less of the bashing

What happened to Jeff? Funny how he dropped off the radar now that the entire Western world disagrees with his right wing bullshit.
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