A Bit ironic. Health insurance thing.

[willy petro]

Well all this week in my English class we were watching the movie Sicko. For those of you not familiar with the movie, its about Healthcare in America and other countries. I was suppoused to do a report over this weekend. The report was if i believed Americas Healthcare was that bad, or if i had another point of view. Well i wont give my point of view just yet. Well when i left school today. I was getting a ride home from my friend Sean. All was well. We literally left school two minutes prior. Then we got tboned. The car was hit on the passenger side by a work van. It hit the direct passenger side door. I was hit so hard my knees knocked together and slammed against the dashboard. When we got out the car i really started understanding what was actually happening. My knees were numb from the crash. The whole passenger side was crumpeled in were i was sitting. So i had to go to the er. All in all it was good except for the bill i was racking up. Its so ironic that my health care was to be involved over this weekend. And for all those who are willing. Id like you to post other incidents you've had with the Healthcare and insurance companies. Good or bad. Im just looking for some more backing for my report. Thanks .

[orb451]

The healthcare system in America is broken. As in shattered. It is *not* going to be fixed quickly, cheaply or easily. Glad to hear you're alright, that sounds like a helluva thing to go through, that is, the car accident in general, let alone getting T-boned and ending up in the ER.

Personally I was sick a few years ago with that MRSA bug that you might have heard about. At the time, it was "relatively" new and I was on an unpaid vacation from my job at the time working as an IT contractor. No health insurance + MRSA infection + trip to ER + surgery = $15K+ in medical bills. Bills I"m still fighting to pay down 6+ years later.

[vampiregenocide]

I'm very glad we don't have to pay in this country. I think if theres one way a government can care for its people best, it is to offer free healthcare.

[willy petro]

Originally Posted by orb451

The healthcare system in America is broken. As in shattered. It is *not* going to be fixed quickly, cheaply or easily. Glad to hear you're alright, that sounds like a helluva thing to go through, that is, the car accident in general, let alone getting T-boned and ending up in the ER.

Personally I was sick a few years ago with that MRSA bug that you might have heard about. At the time, it was "relatively" new and I was on an unpaid vacation from my job at the time working as an IT contractor. No health insurance + MRSA infection + trip to ER + surgery = $15K+ in medical bills. Bills I"m still fighting to pay down 6+ years later.

Yeah its gonna take awhile till we have our health care up to par with the rest of the world. And thanks for your post. And that was 15k just for your the bug? How long were you in the hospital?

[orb451]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

I'm very glad we don't have to pay in this country. I think if theres one way a government can care for its people best, it is to offer free healthcare.

Unfortunately there's no such thing as "free" healthcare. Someone's always got to pay at some point. What the US needs is a complete rebuild of our healthcare system, not the National Healthcare (Obamacare to some folks) plan that was crammed down our throats.

[willy petro]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

I'm very glad we don't have to pay in this country. I think if theres one way a government can care for its people best, it is to offer free healthcare.

Thats gonna be one of my arguments and reasons in my paper actually i'm glad you said something. What country are you from if you don't mine me asking?

[orb451]

Originally Posted by willy petro

Yeah its gonna take awhile till we have our health care up to par with the rest of the world. And thanks for your post. And that was 15k just for your the bug? How long were you in the hospital?

I had the infection and didn't realize it was as bad as it was. I went to the ER as a last resort and when they did their tests they said "you're lucky you came in when you did, if this had spread to your bloodstream, you'd be dead".

I was in for (1) night, out the next day.

[willy petro]

Originally Posted by orb451

Unfortunately there's no such thing as "free" healthcare. Someone's always got to pay at some point. What the US needs is a complete rebuild of our healthcare system, not the National Healthcare (Obamacare to some folks) plan that was crammed down our throats.

Yeah they really didn't put much thought behind that plan. Although the government does pay for other countries healthcare. Its really no different then our government funded sources we use. Such as libraries and other things. I get what your saying tho. There is no way our government could afford to do this at this time anyway. There has to be more plan and thought behind a project that is as extensive as this.

[willy petro]

Originally Posted by orb451

I had the infection and didn't realize it was as bad as it was. I went to the ER as a last resort and when they did their tests they said "you're lucky you came in when you did, if this had spread to your bloodstream, you'd be dead".

I was in for (1) night, out the next day.

Yeah i wasn't gonna go to the ER right away either. But all my friends who were there were like you have to go. Theres no reason you should be standing lol. But your a very lucky man then. Sure its a big bill. But you can't really put a price on someones life. Thank you for the info its really gonna help my report be stronger.

[orb451]

Originally Posted by willy petro

Thank you for the info its really gonna help my report be stronger.

Welcome And yeah, better to go to the ER and get checked then fall down dead the next day from something you could've caught with a visit.

[willy petro]

Originally Posted by orb451

Welcome And yeah, better to go to the ER and get checked then fall down dead the next day from something you could've caught with a visit.

Yeah im glad i went. Its worth the money. And i got all the glass out of my eye and my mouth too so i was happy. But really i can't thank you enough for your info.

[JamesM]

How can America still consider itself the most powerful country in the world if it can't even take care of it's inhabitants?

[vampiregenocide]

Originally Posted by orb451

Unfortunately there's no such thing as "free" healthcare. Someone's always got to pay at some point. What the US needs is a complete rebuild of our healthcare system, not the National Healthcare (Obamacare to some folks) plan that was crammed down our throats.

Its all paid through taxes, which is a small fee compared to tens of thousands you have to pay at once should you need treatment.

What is Obama's plan for Healthcare? I don't know the details of it but from what I heard it was a pretty good idea yet a lot of people seem opposed to it.

Originally Posted by willy petro

Thats gonna be one of my arguments and reasons in my paper actually i'm glad you said something. What country are you from if you don't mine me asking?

I'm from the UK man. We have the NHS and while its got its fair share of issues (In no small part due to the economic climate) in my opinion it is one of the best healthcare systems in the world. You get ill, you get treated. In my opinion any country that checks your wallet before they see whether you're okay has some issues.

Originally Posted by The Armada

How can America still consider itself the most powerful country in the world if it can't even take care of it's inhabitants?

Yeah I've never got the whole 'land of oppotunity' 'land of freedom' stuff you guys talk about. I mean sure, theres a lot of cool stuff about the US, and I'd love to live there, but I don't think either of those statements are true. Land of freedom...but not free healthcare? Hmm. You guys have a bit of growing to do politically and socially, and this is coming from a Brit.

[willy petro]

Originally Posted by The Armada

How can America still consider itself the most powerful country in the world if it can't even take care of it's inhabitants?

So true so true. Its sickening. How can the strongest country have so many flaws. Its crazy. But every country has its downfall i guess. Just depends on the way you view it.

[willy petro]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

Its all paid through taxes, which is a small fee compared to tens of thousands you have to pay at once should you need treatment.

What is Obama's plan for Healthcare? I don't know the details of it but from what I heard it was a pretty good idea yet a lot of people seem opposed to it.



I'm from the UK man. We have the NHS and while its got its fair share of issues (In no small part due to the economic climate) in my opinion it is one of the best healthcare systems in the world. You get ill, you get treated. In my opinion any country that checks your wallet before they see whether you're okay has some issues.

Obamacare has alot of downfalls and hidden things that would even further worsen the state of health care in this country. And taxes arn't a bad idea either. I mean we have 300 million people in the us and 50 million of them have no health coverage what so ever. And i bet the other half isn't much better off. Congess isn't gonna get much done right now since its in its lame duck session. But they really need to listen to what the people want and how to run the whole new coverage issues. Its gonna take awhile for everything to work out. But all in all its ok.

[JamesM]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

What is Obama's plan for Healthcare? I don't know the details of it but from what I heard it was a pretty good idea yet a lot of people seem opposed to it.

It merely isn't aggressive enough. You will hear a lot of anti-Obama folks say some ludicrous and untrue things about it, but it is far too complex for me personally to explain. Being Pro-Obama myself (he's our president folks, deal with it), I think he tried and failed. The intricacies in passing even what he did is far beyond my conception. America is ....ed up, and its politics are a hard game to play.

[vampiregenocide]

Fair. I think you guys should personally just get your own version of the NHS. Have taxes pay for healthcare.

[JamesM]

Will never happen in America. America, as long as it remains to its roots, will ALWAYS remain a plutocracy.

EDIT:
Damned beverages inhibiting my typing...

[willy petro]

Originally Posted by The Armada

It merely isn't aggressive enough. You will hear a lot of anti-Obama folks say some ludicrous and untrue things about it, but it is far too complex for me personally to explain. Being Pro-Obama myself (he's our president folks, deal with it), I think he tried and fail. The intricacies in passing even what he did is far beyond my conception. America is ....ed up, and its politics is a hard game to play.

Exactly! Couldn't of said it better my self.

[PeteyG]

I'm not from the US, but I have a personal story that you're free to use in your assignment if need be dude.

Ross (vampiregenocide) has pretty much said it about over here in the UK, the NHS isn't perfect, I understand back when the US healthcare stuff was first going on with Obama there was a British politician who was going on all of the news channels slamming our system. This is a guy who probably pays for private healthcare, and would have very little experience with what everybody else deals with.

2 years ago I seriously broke my right fibula and dislocated my ankle simultaneously whilst arsing around trying to be funny. When I finally got to hospital I had multiple x-rays, had my ankle relocated wrongly, re-dislocated, and then re-relocated. I then spent from the Thursday in a ward until the Sunday when I had a pretty big operation to attach some metal work to my leg bone, and to secure my ankle with a screw going right the way through. I then spent 2 more days in a ward on quite a large amount of morphine until I was able to go home.

2 weeks after this I went back into hospital for a check up x-ray and some other stuff.

3 months later I have to go back into hospital for a secondary operation to remove the screw securing my ankle.

After all of this, I haven't had to pay a single penny. I should mention that I'm a student, and am racking up quite a large level of debt just by being at University, had I been a citizen of your country I would most likely have to drop out of Uni and sell a LOT of my things to be able to pay off my hospital bills. However I will instead pay off this healthcare in reasonable taxes for the rest of my life.

The way I see it, I'd much rather pay taxes that cover my arse were anything to happen to me (we all have to go to hospital at some point) instead of having my quality of life seriously diminished by being faced with hospital bills, especially seeing how it seems that insurance companies over there will do absolutely anything to get out of having to cover someone.

[JamesM]

I'm glad to hear all is well on your end Pete.

Further, statistically (unless I've been fed absolute bullshit) schooling is more expensive here too.

I've never liked it here. There are people who are really as bad as everyone says they are, and being from St. Louis I've seen it all. I'm hoping to "get out" if you will.

My solution for all of Americas monetary issues: The rich make more, the rich pay more. Period. I'm in a position to be accepting a very well paying job with huge room for pay expansion, so it isn't in my "best interest" to feel this way, but it is the RIGHT way, the HUMAN way. Well, opinions I suppose.

Economists state that one of America's main problems is that the rich grow richer whilst the poor grow poorer. Solution? Poor pay less, rich pay more. Bam! There's that new stable middle class we so loved in the 20s!

[orb451]

First, the middle class you speak of Armada is disappearing at an alarming rate. Soon there will be the super rich, and extremely poor with little or no one in between living comfortably.

Sure we all get flat screen TVs and cheap shitty food to get fat off of, but it's borrowing from tomorrow to live today.

What we need is a different approach to healthcare entirely. Not a state run, state mandated debacle like we're going to be stuck with in a few years. People need to unwrap their heads around the current system and start embracing something else.

It isn't my idea, but it's one I've read and found the most agreeable. The gist of it is, you put money, pre-tax, in an account for healthcare out of each paycheck. The amount you designate is up to you. A portion of that money is used for checkups, prescriptions and whatever the hell else can be considered "run of the mill, regular maintenance". The *rest* of that money, gets set aside and stays in the account for "catastrophes". The kind of stuff you *don't* plan for.

See, people have become SO accustomed to healthcare in terms of "what does it cost me? What's my co-payment" and less about the overall cost of healthcare, and thus unknowingly, or perhaps uncaringly, let those costs sky rocket. The market WOULD reach a natural equilibrium if healthcare providers had to actually *compete* for our dollars. You see examples in almost any industry or market that lets consumers vote with their wallets. Look at the slice of the healthcare industry that is considered "voluntary" that is, stuff that you rarely if ever, see *covered* in a health insurance plan. Stuff like teeth whitening, or cosmetic surgery, Lasik and its ilk and even some dietary surgeries that aren't covered. What happens with them? The cost goes down as providers compete, the quality goes up, and the consumer gets to decide *where* to spend their money.

There's no reason on Earth that my ONE night in the hospital should cost 15,000 USD. None. Zero. And yet, because of the way healthcare is today, that's the cost. Why? Because people don't give a shit how much things cost. They only care about the cost of what is *not* covered, and thus, responsible for paying.

And sure, you can argue the system I'm outlining is *just* like Medicare or Social Security. That might be true in a sense, but I'd rather "reset" and dismantle those broken systems as well, and have one account that you pay into and take money out of, on a regular basis that goes towards your own personal healthcare. I'd rather that, than having the government tell me that I'm going to be fined or penalized for *not* buying their insurance plan or an insurance plan that they sanction, own or are managing.

Some people are against NHC or the current iteration because they just don't like Obama and his cronies. I can understand that and respect it. Others like myself are against the NHC because it's the wrong execution of the wrong idea. We don't need another layer of government hiding the true cost of healthcare from us and are in dire need of people owning up to and taking responsibility for their own life choices.

Some things can't be helped. That's a given. But if you sit on your fat ass and eat twinkies all day and McDonald's 5 nights a week because you're poor, why should the government, or we the tax payers, subsidize your fatass and sedentary lifestyle? Why should we pay continually through the nose as you edge closer to critical mass, going to kidney dialysis for your out of control Diabetes because you *chose* to be a fat, slimey walrus looking puke piece of shit?

I see no reason for it. If you choose to be a ....up in life, own up to it. Accept responsibility. Don't pass the buck and expect everyone to bend over and take it up the ass money-wise because you couldn't be bothered eating better or getting more exercise. Healthcare is truly about regular maintenance. No one in their right mind that owns a car would run it, or try to run it, for 100K miles without an oil change or tune up. Our bodies are the same way and need regular maintenance and checkups. When you start to look at healthcare in terms of "what does it cost" for each and every bit of service you get, and less about "what does it cost me, insurance will pay the rest" we can finally get some *real* healthcare reform.

Until then...

[WickedSymphony]

Any chance of remembering where you came across that idea orb? I'd actually like to read more about it, it sounds good.

[orb451]

Originally Posted by WickedSymphony

Any chance of remembering where you came across that idea orb? I'd actually like to read more about it, it sounds good.

You might laugh, but if I remember right, it was a Rolling Stone Magazine article online. Maybe a year or 9 months ago... I never saved the link or anything but it was one of their writers' ideas.

[willy petro]

!

Originally Posted by PeteyG

I'm not from the US, but I have a personal story that you're free to use in your assignment if need be dude.

Ross (vampiregenocide) has pretty much said it about over here in the UK, the NHS isn't perfect, I understand back when the US healthcare stuff was first going on with Obama there was a British politician who was going on all of the news channels slamming our system. This is a guy who probably pays for private healthcare, and would have very little experience with what everybody else deals with.

2 years ago I seriously broke my right fibula and dislocated my ankle simultaneously whilst arsing around trying to be funny. When I finally got to hospital I had multiple x-rays, had my ankle relocated wrongly, re-dislocated, and then re-relocated. I then spent from the Thursday in a ward until the Sunday when I had a pretty big operation to attach some metal work to my leg bone, and to secure my ankle with a screw going right the way through. I then spent 2 more days in a ward on quite a large amount of morphine until I was able to go home.

2 weeks after this I went back into hospital for a check up x-ray and some other stuff.

3 months later I have to go back into hospital for a secondary operation to remove the screw securing my ankle.

After all of this, I haven't had to pay a single penny. I should mention that I'm a student, and am racking up quite a large level of debt just by being at University, had I been a citizen of your country I would most likely have to drop out of Uni and sell a LOT of my things to be able to pay off my hospital bills. However I will instead pay off this healthcare in reasonable taxes for the rest of my life.

The way I see it, I'd much rather pay taxes that cover my arse were anything to happen to me (we all have to go to hospital at some point) instead of having my quality of life seriously diminished by being faced with hospital bills, especially seeing how it seems that insurance companies over there will do absolutely anything to get out of having to cover someone.

Thankyou for posting! This will help alot in my report. Im glad your ok too!