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Unread 11-03-2010, 08:46 PM   #1
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Pot NOT legalized in California.

Any thoughts about this?

Looks like my trip to California is delayed lol
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Unread 11-03-2010, 08:53 PM   #2
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I voted yes and am very pissed at the outcome (despite me not smoking it):


Why am I pissed? Let's take a look:

1.) Most of the voters that turned it down were over 40 (according to CNN) (great, grandpa olderthan.... gets to tell me what to do with my life)
2.) The potential tax revenue would've been a HUGE benefactor in solving our state's budget crisis. (but since we just can't have that 'evil' little plant, we're going to continue cutting funding to schools, hospitals, and to fire/police station until we can fix the problem. I feel safer already. )
3.) Again, from a money perspective; the money we spend on prosecution of the substance (including paper and court hearings for fines) would've been used towards California's budget insolvency issue. (nope, despite our economy being in the shitter, we still have to spend all kinds of money towards a failed war on drugs. Nice.)
4.) The jobs created by the creation of marijuana distributors would've helped lower the huge unemployment rate that we have here. (13 ....ING PERCENT!!!! http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=usu ... yment+rate) (Cool, I like being all unemployed and broke. I feel like I'm contributing to society by being a goddamn couch-potato......NOT!)
5.) The health benefits of having government-regulated marijuana vs. random shit you get on the street which could be laced with anything. (nope, we gotta teach those evil weed-smokers that if they get bud laced with pcp, crack, etc....then they get what they deserve. Even if it means overdose and death.)


All I can say is if you voted no.....I hate you. So goddamn much. I don't even smoke weed, but passing the measure would've helped the state out so much. Instead of clinging to outdated ideologies and propaganda (remember that the people that were pushing towards weed criminalization were also racists. Lets continue their message of hate. Don't believe me? Read this: http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why ... a-illegal/) we should've just done the smart thing and let this pass. Weed was criminalized in a way that is arguably unconstitutional and should never have happened.

All you Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh worshippers can eat my continuetobebrokeandunemployed ass with a spoon......


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Unread 11-03-2010, 09:03 PM   #3
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Same reasons I wanted legalization ( despite being in NY)
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Unread 11-03-2010, 09:06 PM   #4
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Same here as well....

People don't stop and think about possible benefits of certain propositions before simply voting them down. Really grinds my gears

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Unread 11-03-2010, 09:15 PM   #5
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I feel you guys ... but isn't it better to just have it decriminalised even if the idea is a little bit utopic it would be better that way.
No chemical gov shit in ya weed and better THC levels. Anyway.. just sayin' GROW YOUR OWN !
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Unread 11-03-2010, 09:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivancic1al View Post
Same here as well....

People don't stop and think about possible benefits of certain propositions before simply voting them down. Really grinds my gears

this +100000000000000000000000000000

I've been reading the comments of some of those that voted no (like on the fox website) and I'm just sickened. They all run along the lines of this:

"NurseRiverBoat says: NO on Marijuana.
Stop smokin' dope, you dopes.
Roll a joint and stay home and deal with your grieving over prop 19 failing hugely at the polls.
All you dope smokers were too busy getting your bongs all lit up to vote.
You snooze, you loose
but if all you do is worship pot, then what every else are you gonna do with your useless pathetic lives?
Smoke more dope, sure. Go lie to your dope smokin' MD and get a script for more pot.
Like your brain needs that crap.
Drop out, smoke dope and let the rest of us get ahead of you in this dog eat dog world."






Yep, preach to me about what I worship, but at least I hold true to my beliefs instead of talking about them and then doing the exact opposite.


Edit: Oh and before people start saying that it HUGELY failed, here were the results:
"With nearly all of the votes counted 19 went down 46 percent for and nearly 54 percent against."

Looks to me like it was actually pretty close. My hope is that if enough of the senior ultra-conservatives die off in the next 2 years, and this gets re-introduced, we'll see some legal weed here in 2012. Too bad that I'm gonna be stuck in a state with such a high unemployment rate for those 2 years.


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Unread 11-03-2010, 09:25 PM   #7
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Getting tax revenue by increasing drug use is just asking for future problems in your society. All I need to say is "accessibility theory".
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Unread 11-03-2010, 09:32 PM   #8
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Just a warning... this forum has a policy against discussion regarding consuming illegal substances. This thread stays open only as long as it's about the bill. Everyone who takes this as an open opportunity to brag about their marijuana consumption will be banned, possibly for good. This is the only warning.

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Unread 11-03-2010, 10:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMyghin View Post
Getting tax revenue by increasing drug use is just asking for future problems in your society. All I need to say is "accessibility theory".


I disagree. It's already one of the most easily accessible substances as is. I doubt it would change either way. All that would really change is who gets the profit from it. The government or those wonderful cartels that kill people if they can't keep up with their weed bill. Personally I'd go with the lesser of 2 evils and give that money to people that might actually *attempt* to improve my life. I know it's a bit of a pipe dream, but they're more likely to be accountable for their actions than those oh-so-friendly cartels.

And as further proof that history seems to repeat itself, remember the prohibition on alcohol? For those that slept in civics, the 18th amendment (or Volstead Act of 1919) was introduced by fundamentalists (not unlike those that oppose prop 19) to prohibit the sale, use and distribution of alcohol and what were the results?
Alcohol consumption continued same as ever, only since it became illegal, that removed the government regulation that it had so that mobsters took over and decided what would be considered 'good booze'. Nice to know that murdering, thieving, profiteers were in charge of what I would've gotten to ingest in my body, had I lived at that time. And since even government officials wouldn't stop drinking, this lead to rampant corruption. (and mass hypocrisy I'm sure)

And that's more or less been the story of weed. Main difference being that it actually has more benefits and is less harmful to the human body than alcohol. That and instead of 'mobsters' we have gangs and cartels running the trade. Sure that innocent 15 yr old buddy of yours may not doing anything that bad, but the money always seems to trickle down to the weed trade coming from mexico.


How does weed have more benefits? Well let's go from my own personal experiences. My cousin works, goes to school (while maintaining top grades) and has a good social life (ie not a gang member, nor does she hang out with shady people). Her job is mixing auto body paint. This form of physical labor has caused her chronic back pain for years. The doctor gave her a legal prescription for painkillers. It started affecting her performance at both work and at school. On top of that, it didn't even really kill the pain completely. I found out she started smoking weed not too long ago, and when I asked her about it, she reported to me that she discovered that not only did it help her with her back pain (removing it completely) but she didn't have to take vicodin anymore and she was doing MUCH better at both work and school. It has also helped her psychologically since she used to have a bit of a temper problem and was a bit high-strung and nowadays, she's very even-tempered and chill.

(note to mods, this isn't meant to brag about it per se, but to demonstrate positive health benefits of marijuana. )


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Unread 11-03-2010, 11:18 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by SirMyghin View Post
Getting tax revenue by increasing drug use is just asking for future problems in your society. All I need to say is "accessibility theory".
Along those lines, because alcohol and tobacco are legal there should be far more drunks and lung cancer cases. If you look, typically it's easier to get illegal substances such as Pot than it is to find a store willing to sell alcohol to minors. When people's livelihood depends on giving a certain product to the right people, than selling that product at all, people opt to not sell to those that are not "approved" to have it.

Will there be a slight increase in the number of people who use Pot if it's legalized? At first, yes, but not in quantities that are "unhealthy" for a community. Like most things, over time (and I'm not talking decades) things will balance out as Pot is accepted into it's new place in culture. Just look at countries which have already legalized it.

It's easy to lump all those who smoke pot as idiot stoners with no life, who are just leeching off society. The media has done a GREAT job of influencing people's perceptions. I remember high school, all the losers who did nothing but skip class and smoke pot all day, but like most aspects of high school, it's not an accurate picture of the real world. In fact, most of the adults I know who smoke Pot are hard working, responsible, intelligent people, just like most of the adults I know who drink, and the adults I know who are on prescription drugs.

Pot isn't the only high out there, though some people tend to think it's one of the most evil. I will ask though, how many stories have you heard of a man getting home from work, smoking a ton of pot, then beating the shit out of his wife and kids?

Legalization doesn't mean that everyone is going to get a voucher for free pot, it's still going to be regulated, and that regulation is going to make it FAR more difficult to get a hold of.

For the record, I haven't touched the stuff in years, and I'm far from an advocate.

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Unread 11-03-2010, 11:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMyghin View Post
Getting tax revenue by increasing drug use is just asking for future problems in your society. All I need to say is "accessibility theory".
Even if use did not increase at all, the amount of money gained from existing users would be huge. Tons of people already use the stuff. I'm one of the only people I know who has never even tried it, most of my friends are at least casual users
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Unread 11-03-2010, 11:37 PM   #12
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My thoughts are this:

People are going to smoke pot regardless and you're not going to be able to stop them because you CANNOT legislate morality and tell people what is right and wrong. If you need any further proof of this then look at how much money the government spends on prosecuting those who grow, sell and distribute it. This is the same principle behind Prohibition in the 20's and the same reason why it failed is because the government realized that it was a massive fail and the more they tried to prevent people from partaking in it then the more they did it. Granted I don't live in California but I can see the benefits of legalizing it and I fully support it as it would solve a lot of their budget and funding issues within their state but the problem is getting the hardcore Conservatives to agree.
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Unread 11-03-2010, 11:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC7 View Post
I feel you guys ... but isn't it better to just have it decriminalised even if the idea is a little bit utopic it would be better that way.

No chemical gov shit in ya weed and better THC levels. Anyway.. just sayin' GROW YOUR OWN !
Here's what my sample ballot says:

Quote:
19 - LEGALIZES MARIJUANA UNDER CALIFORNIA BUT NOT FEDERAL LAW. PERMITS LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO REGULATE AND TAX COMMERCIAL PRODUCTION, DISTRIBUTION, AND SALE OF MARIJUANA. INITIATIVE STATUTE. Allows people 21 years old or older to possess, cultivate, or transport marijuana for personal use. Fiscal Impact: Depending on federal, state, and local government actions, potential increased tax and fee revenues in the hundreds of millions of dollars annually and potential correctional savings of several tens of millions of dollars annually.
Growin' your own is in there.



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Unread 11-03-2010, 11:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXDeathMetal View Post
My thoughts are this:

People are going to smoke pot regardless and you're not going to be able to stop them because you CANNOT legislate morality and tell people what is right and wrong. If you need any further proof of this then look at how much money the government spends on prosecuting those who grow, sell and distribute it. This is the same principle behind Prohibition in the 20's and the same reason why it failed is because the government realized that it was a massive fail and the more they tried to prevent people from partaking in it then the more they did it. Granted I don't live in California but I can see the benefits of legalizing it and I fully support it as it would solve a lot of their budget and funding issues within their state but the problem is getting the hardcore Conservatives to agree.

The crazy thing is that even police stations and supreme court justices were pro-19. The people were all for it. Minus the baby-boomers that feel inclined to congregate around the polls with their mis-informed opinions and votes that will affect others when they're long dead more than said baby-boomers.
I suppose it's hard to care about people that can't find a job anywhere when you got that nice monthly "fixed" income. And since they don't drive anymore, they don't have to worry about the impossibly long lines at the DMV due to it being closed more days out of the week as a means to save $$$ for the government. In the meantime, my ID recently expired and it's impossible to accept a job with an out-dated ID. Which means I'll be hanging out at the DMV for the next week in HOPES that I can get far enough in line to get a new one.

Also, some sites are showing that by income, more people with $200,000 a year or more voted no on prop 19 than yes. (and republican at that) Yep, nice to know that my life is also dictated by the rich and powerful as well.


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Unread 11-03-2010, 11:55 PM   #15
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Some old people don't even have the common decency to STFU and die.
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Unread 11-04-2010, 12:03 AM   #16
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You know, part of living in a "democracy" (in quotes for a reason ) is accepting that sometimes you're in a minority. It sucks, and typically, it's less of a true minority and more of a "minority of voters".

As much as I'd like to vilify the opposition, they did exactly what everyone else did, they went and "voiced" their opinion by pressing a few buttons. Were they ill informed? Yeah, probably. Is voting about making informed decisions? No actually. It's about voicing your opinion.

In the end, the majority which votes rules. It often sucks, but that's why everyone needs to get to the damn polls.


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Unread 11-04-2010, 12:05 AM   #17
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Quote:
The crazy thing is that even police stations and supreme court justices were pro-19. The people were all for it. Minus the baby-boomers that feel inclined to congregate around the polls with their mis-informed opinions and votes that will affect others when they're long dead more than said baby-boomers.
I suppose it's hard to care about people that can't find a job anywhere when you got that nice monthly "fixed" income. And since they don't drive anymore, they don't have to worry about the impossibly long lines at the DMV due to it being closed more days out of the week as a means to save $$$ for the government. In the meantime, my ID recently expired and it's impossible to accept a job with an out-dated ID. Which means I'll be hanging out at the DMV for the next week in HOPES that I can get far enough in line to get a new one.
Of course law enforcement, firefighters, local and state government employees were for it because they know/knew that the tax revenue generated off of legalizing it would more than pay their salaries and they wouldn't have to worry about the increasing threat of them being unemployed.
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Unread 11-04-2010, 12:07 AM   #18
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You know what should be a ....ing pre-requisite for voting or being a public servant?

AN IQ TEST!!!!!! Like, omgbbqhbatmanhusseinobama.
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Unread 11-04-2010, 12:09 AM   #19
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Unread 11-04-2010, 12:11 AM   #20
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You know what should be a ....ing pre-requisite for voting or being a public servant?

AN IQ TEST!!!!!! Like, omgbbqhbatmanhusseinobama.
Yes, and we can use the revenue generated from legalized marijuana to fund said IQ tests.
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Unread 11-04-2010, 12:18 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by MaxOfMetal View Post
You know, part of living in a "democracy" (in quotes for a reason ) is accepting that sometimes you're in a minority. It sucks, and typically, it's less of a true minority and more of a "minority of voters".

As much as I'd like to vilify the opposition, they did exactly what everyone else did, they went and "voiced" their opinion by pressing a few buttons. Were they ill informed? Yeah, probably. Is voting about making informed decisions? No actually. It's about voicing your opinion.

In the end, the majority which votes rules. It often sucks, but that's why everyone needs to get to the damn polls.


I agree with you there man. It takes guts to vote for your beliefs imo and I respect people that voted no more than those that just plain didn't vote. Apathy is a bigger crime than ignorance in my book. It just kills me that the closest thing this state had to a way out of it's current shit-storm that it's in, is killed by people that it won't even negatively impact. And with the Social Security pushing further and further towards bankrupcy, it could even have the potential to help reduce even that. (which would help the morons voting no on it)

The only other group that voted no on it were the 'drug are bad m'kay?' people that can't be bothered to put down facebook for 5 secs and google the damn drug. They all have the same argument:
"You're a lazy, dope-smoking loser that has no education or ambitions and wants to be a leech off of everybody else"
I just want to do my best from now on to educate people about how untrue that statement is. Most of the "potheads" I know are employed and/or enrolled in a college of some sort. (and doing excellent in them at that)

We'll get it legal. The sad part is that we have to wait for old people with outdated beliefs to die off before that can happen.


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Unread 11-04-2010, 12:19 AM   #22
 
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What was already decided prior to this election was that starting in Jan it will no longer be a misdemeanor to posses small amounts, it will be an infraction. There are lots of growers who are afraid of losing an edge on a market they helped create so they figured its better to spread the word that if it does pass then its only a matter of time before its fully sold and regulated by the government as well as big alcohol and tobacco companies which would once again result in the growers out here losing their edge on the market as cheaper less quality weed could eventually be sold openly, driving prices, quality and control down. Its all politics, typical politics. My understanding, based on what Ive caught through word of mouth from random people is that nearly ALL the growers voted no. Its sad.
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Unread 11-04-2010, 12:30 AM   #23
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Just a warning... this forum has a policy against discussion regarding consuming illegal substances. This thread stays open only as long as it's about the bill. Everyone who takes this as an open opportunity to brag about their marijuana consumption will be banned, possibly for good. This is the only warning.
That's bizarre for a musician's forum in my opinion.

My views on the subject:



I am also very disappointed it didn't pass, young people need to get out and vote. I haven't heard any rational intelligent reasons for voting "No" besides a bunch of weed in people's yards is ugly.
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Unread 11-04-2010, 12:32 AM   #24
Likes trem wankery.
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Quote:
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That's bizarre to me for a musician's forum.
It's just easier/better for everyone if we keep discussion legal.

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Unread 11-04-2010, 12:33 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silentrage View Post
You know what should be a ....ing pre-requisite for voting or being a public servant?

AN IQ TEST!!!!!! Like, omgbbqhbatmanhusseinobama.
As much as I agree with this, I also believe it to be a violation of our democratic right. However, I also hate stupid people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDLE View Post
That's bizarre for a musician's forum in my opinion.

My views on the subject:

I'd hate to be the one to break it to ya, but there's been a lot of shitty art made by people identifying with drug culture, too. Likewise, there's been both excellent and shitty art created in complete absence of drugs. And brilliant people who get behind drugs aren't suddenly enlightened beings for that purpose; Nikola Tesla had the firm belief that drinking a glass of scotch a day would cause him to live to be 150. He died at 86 from heart failure.

Quote:
I am also very disappointed it didn't pass, young people need to get out and vote. I haven't heard any rational intelligent reasons for voting "No" besides a bunch of weed in people's yards is ugly.
Word.



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