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Unread 10-06-2010, 06:53 AM   #1
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Firemen watch house burn down over unpaid fee...

Saw this on MG.org.

Firefighters let man

Words can't express how ridiculously enraged this makes me feel. These are twisted human beings.
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Unread 10-06-2010, 07:16 AM   #2
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Over $75, too. Pathetic.
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Unread 10-06-2010, 07:32 AM   #3
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sounds more like "the mob" than a fire department. we would have helped you but, you didnt pay your protection to the boss.
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Unread 10-06-2010, 07:53 AM   #4
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Nope just following laws and the rules of economy. No fee no service for something that is supposed to be a national service (at least in most countries in the world it is)! The same when you don't have medical cover. Even if they treat you they make you wish you died from the amount you have to pay for medical bills.

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Unread 10-06-2010, 08:11 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Edika View Post
Nope just following laws and the rules of economy. No fee no service for something that is supposed to be a national service (at least in most countries in the world it is)! The same when you don't have medical cover. Even if they treat you they make you wish you died from the amount you have to pay for medical bills.
Apparently if people paid more tax instead of the fee they pay upfront, tax would rise by just 0.13%. So you tell me, is it that much that it makes a difference? I couldn't give a shit if they were just following rules, it's immoral. I mean with medical bills sure thats ....ed up, but its a lot more money and treatment at stake. This was $75 to stop a fire with water they had with them at the time (And ended up using anyway, as the fire spready to a nearby house).
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Unread 10-06-2010, 08:54 AM   #6
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Legal or not, it's ....ing inhumane.

I think that's all I'm going to say on this one.

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Unread 10-06-2010, 09:14 AM   #7
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Unread 10-06-2010, 11:01 AM   #8
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This is another reason I love being in Canada. Pay your normal taxes and it doesn't matter if you get shot, you'll get help (albeit with a long waiting time depending on severity)

But fire protection seems more to me as a right..

Sucks to hear about this >_<

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Unread 10-06-2010, 11:21 AM   #9
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woah, woah, woah, HOLD THE PHONE.

i see some malinformed opinions.

the firefighters are instructed by their JOB LAWS to not act.

now think like this: if you were a firefighter, and as much as you WANTED to act and put out this fire, if saving this person meant you could lose your job AND be prosecuted by law and possibly LOCKED UP, would you act?

in my opinion, one fire under those crazy laws aint worth unemployment and jailtime.

my issue is with the job law itself, i dont blame the firefighters.

if it were up to me, i'd abolish the .... out of that law.

if they dont pay their 75, stop the fire and CHARGE THEM, for god's sake, how the .... does that not make sense?

I'm completely incensed and pissed about how stupid that situation is.

a rant went on earlier about this as well:



now, save for his part about "be a human being" and blaming the firefighters, i agree with his rant especially about the conservative right ( sorry to anyone who might be republican, it's just my opinion)

i feel as though in a world where laws say "pay the piper or the market will crush you" is totally inhumane, community is a good idea.

now, for following the law, i do not blame the firemen, but i do wish someone would have taken a risk, y'know? i mean, im sure in court of law, someone would try to appeal to their humanity if they acted and believed people were there and saved lives.

it's ....ing terrible and an absolutely sickening state of affairs at any rate.

/rant
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Unread 10-06-2010, 11:41 AM   #10
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yeah thats a small fee... put the ....ing fire out and let them pay it back..
Im sure the family would have been thankfull to pay the fee.

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Unread 10-06-2010, 11:49 AM   #11
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yeah thats a small fee... put the ....ing fire out and let them pay it back..
Im sure the family would have been thankfull to pay the fee.
they really even said it they said theyd pay MORE that the fee.

its terrible.
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Unread 10-06-2010, 11:51 AM   #12
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Here's the thing, the fee of $75 goes to support the fire department when there's *not* a fire. It goes to the department so they can hire people, buy equipment and maintain their existing equipment. If they just let anyone pay the fee when their house was on fire, take a guess at what would happen.

No one would pay the yearly fee and the only people that would, would be those with their houses literally in flames.

In *that* part of Tennessee, the services are paid for up front by the rural residents. Don't pay the fee, don't get the services. If you fail to pay your car insurance, and then you get in an accident, do you think you just get to pay last month's premium on the spot and get coverage? If your spouse has a life insurance policy and then dies unexpectedly without paying their last premium, do you *honestly* expect to collect? I hope not, because that's not the way things work.

It's sad that these people lost their home, however, the residents of this area and most (or all) of Tennessee have fought tooth and nail against income taxes that would have paid for Fire Department services as they do most everywhere else. So, in this situation, the residents knew full well that Fire services were paid for in advance, every year. Letting that fee lapse is obviously a VERY big deal. If they don't like it, they should start paying income taxes or what have you AHEAD of time, so things like this are covered in the event of an emergency.
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Unread 10-06-2010, 12:18 PM   #13
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^ Shitty deal, but I kind of agree. I wonder if they have volunteer fire services over there, or would that even matter? I wish I knew how volunteer firemen operated. So far my knowledge is pretty much this. We'll apply it to this situation.

(House burning down in Tennessee. Fire department shows up)

Fire Dept. - Shit, these guys didn't pay their fee. If we did anything, that would be like someone getting their car fixed even though they didn't pay their insurance, only this time it's someone's house. Lol, capitalism!

(Volunteer fire department rushes to the scene in a slightly beaten up but no less capable fire truck. Truck fishtails and drifts to a very controlled stop, leaving tire marks on the pavement 300 feet long. The smell of burnt rubber hangs in the air. A dozen or so badass ............s leap off the truck and commence running up to the firemen.)

Volunteer firemen - YOU ....ING PUSSIES. THERE'S A HOUSE BURNING AND IT'S GOTTA STOP! WE'RE GOING TO PUT THIS SHIT OUT AND NOT EXPECT TO GET PAID A DIME, .... THIS FIRE.

(Volunteer firemen rush into the house with a total disregard for their own safety and carry out the dogs and cats by the scruffs of their necks - with their teeth. They need their arms to punch a way out of the burning house. After the animals are rescued, the firemen begin to piss on the flames, extinguishing them completely. They then rebuild the house using trees from the backyard. The volunteer firemen have come and gone within a space of 2 hours)

Firemen - Holy shit, those guys were awesome.
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Unread 10-06-2010, 01:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orb451 View Post
Here's the thing, the fee of $75 goes to support the fire department when there's *not* a fire. It goes to the department so they can hire people, buy equipment and maintain their existing equipment. If they just let anyone pay the fee when their house was on fire, take a guess at what would happen.

No one would pay the yearly fee and the only people that would, would be those with their houses literally in flames.

In *that* part of Tennessee, the services are paid for up front by the rural residents. Don't pay the fee, don't get the services. If you fail to pay your car insurance, and then you get in an accident, do you think you just get to pay last month's premium on the spot and get coverage? If your spouse has a life insurance policy and then dies unexpectedly without paying their last premium, do you *honestly* expect to collect? I hope not, because that's not the way things work.

It's sad that these people lost their home, however, the residents of this area and most (or all) of Tennessee have fought tooth and nail against income taxes that would have paid for Fire Department services as they do most everywhere else. So, in this situation, the residents knew full well that Fire services were paid for in advance, every year. Letting that fee lapse is obviously a VERY big deal. If they don't like it, they should start paying income taxes or what have you AHEAD of time, so things like this are covered in the event of an emergency.
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Unread 10-06-2010, 01:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Here's the thing, the fee of $75 goes to support the fire department when there's *not* a fire. It goes to the department so they can hire people, buy equipment and maintain their existing equipment. If they just let anyone pay the fee when their house was on fire, take a guess at what would happen.

No one would pay the yearly fee and the only people that would, would be those with their houses literally in flames.

In *that* part of Tennessee, the services are paid for up front by the rural residents. Don't pay the fee, don't get the services. If you fail to pay your car insurance, and then you get in an accident, do you think you just get to pay last month's premium on the spot and get coverage? If your spouse has a life insurance policy and then dies unexpectedly without paying their last premium, do you *honestly* expect to collect? I hope not, because that's not the way things work.

It's sad that these people lost their home, however, the residents of this area and most (or all) of Tennessee have fought tooth and nail against income taxes that would have paid for Fire Department services as they do most everywhere else. So, in this situation, the residents knew full well that Fire services were paid for in advance, every year. Letting that fee lapse is obviously a VERY big deal. If they don't like it, they should start paying income taxes or what have you AHEAD of time, so things like this are covered in the event of an emergency.
^^ It sucks about these people losing their home but this is common in rural areas. Inhumane or no, services, (even volunteer-based ones) are never free. Now, I'd assume they could alter the law so they would act to save your property for a greatly increased fee...say several thousand dollars, this would discourage people from not paying the yearly fee.

I'm actually curious as to what they were burning as there are pretty strict outdoor burning regulations in that TN (particularly with household trash):

Burn Permits and TN Burning Laws

I posted that mainly to show what's illegal to burn there (not the burn permits section, but farther down). I'm really not trying to be a d*ck, its just hard for me to be empathetic when people are knowingly breaking a law or not paying for a communal service. For services like this to work, everyone needs to contribute, period.

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Unread 10-06-2010, 02:22 PM   #16
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Gah I really find it scary you guys can just boil it down to 'ah well they should've paid'.

Yeah, it would've saved them a lot of hassle clearly, but I think allowing a fire to destroy someones livelyhood and possibly endanger others is a far bigger crime than brushing aside a small fee. If anything, they could've put the fire out and fined them or something, teach them a lesson and make them appreciate their job. Perhaps if the state is not willing to increase taxes to deal with this, then they should bring in a larger fine to anyone who needs rescuing but has not paid the necessary service fee. I think it is down to the firefighters and the powers that be here.
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Unread 10-06-2010, 02:35 PM   #17
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Gah I really find it scary you guys can just boil it down to 'ah well they should've paid'.

Yeah, it would've saved them a lot of hassle clearly, but I think allowing a fire to destroy someones livelyhood and possibly endanger others is a far bigger crime than brushing aside a small fee. If anything, they could've put the fire out and fined them or something, teach them a lesson and make them appreciate their job. Perhaps if the state is not willing to increase taxes to deal with this, then they should bring in a larger fine to anyone who needs rescuing but has not paid the necessary service fee. I think it is down to the firefighters and the powers that be here.
Well in *that* part of Tennessee, it's a service you pay for with that $75. Everyone needs to contribute in order for the system to work. They've had their chance to do it like everyone else, and have a portion of their taxes pay for it, and declined that option. So what you're left with is a VERY crucial service that MUST be paid for.

Is it a shame they lost their house? Hell yeah. But taking responsibility and paying one's fair share trump their short sighted behavior. Steep fines for those that opted *not* to pay only works up until the point at which you try to *collect* said fines. The old saying goes, you can't take blood from a rock, or something like that. If I had to guess, I'd bet these rural areas are not the most affluent. So saying "yeah we'll put out the fire, provided you pay us the $75 fee AND a fine of $1500 (or some arbitrarily high amount) would get you nothing but people saying "yeah yeah yeah, we'll pay the fine and the fee... no problem " and you'd see every one of them go to a collections agency for payment.

It's a shame, but the people RIGHT next door paid their fee, and received the service needed to stop the fire that THESE people started (accidental or not).
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Unread 10-06-2010, 02:53 PM   #18
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Well in *that* part of Tennessee, it's a service you pay for with that $75. Everyone needs to contribute in order for the system to work. They've had their chance to do it like everyone else, and have a portion of their taxes pay for it, and declined that option. So what you're left with is a VERY crucial service that MUST be paid for.

Is it a shame they lost their house? Hell yeah. But taking responsibility and paying one's fair share trump their short sighted behavior. Steep fines for those that opted *not* to pay only works up until the point at which you try to *collect* said fines. The old saying goes, you can't take blood from a rock, or something like that. If I had to guess, I'd bet these rural areas are not the most affluent. So saying "yeah we'll put out the fire, provided you pay us the $75 fee AND a fine of $1500 (or some arbitrarily high amount) would get you nothing but people saying "yeah yeah yeah, we'll pay the fine and the fee... no problem " and you'd see every one of them go to a collections agency for payment.

It's a shame, but the people RIGHT next door paid their fee, and received the service needed to stop the fire that THESE people started (accidental or not).
I can't agree with that man. I think a fine would work well.
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Unread 10-06-2010, 02:58 PM   #19
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I can't agree with that man. I think a fine would work well.
Then the headlines will read "Fire Department forces family of fire victims into debt and poverty".

These folks turned down paying it via taxes, then skimped out on it how they "wanted" to pay it. Sometimes when you make enough stupid decisions they bite you in the ass.

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Unread 10-06-2010, 03:03 PM   #20
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Then the headlines will read "Fire Department forces family of fire victims into debt and poverty".

These folks turned down paying it via taxes, then skimped out on it how they "wanted" to pay it. Sometimes when you make enough stupid decisions they bite you in the ass.
Exactly
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Unread 10-06-2010, 03:07 PM   #21
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Then the headlines will read "Fire Department forces family of fire victims into debt and poverty".

These folks turned down paying it via taxes, then skimped out on it how they "wanted" to pay it. Sometimes when you make enough stupid decisions they bite you in the ass.
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Unread 10-06-2010, 03:13 PM   #22
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By NOT putting out the fire and instead waiting until it reached the neighbor's property (who had payed for the service) the VFD should be held liable for recklessly endangering the neighbors property, as they could have prevented the fire from reaching said property to begin with.
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Unread 10-06-2010, 03:15 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by MaxOfMetal View Post
Then the headlines will read "Fire Department forces family of fire victims into debt and poverty".

These folks turned down paying it via taxes, then skimped out on it how they "wanted" to pay it. Sometimes when you make enough stupid decisions they bite you in the ass.
And I suppose thats no worse tha 'Fire Department Stands By While Family's Home Gets Burnt Down'?

Sure they made a mistake, but they should've paid with a fine, not with all their material possessions and pets. I honestly can't comprehend how you can say otherwise. But hey maybe thats what it's like your side of the pond, maybe you just expect things to run that way I dunno.
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Unread 10-06-2010, 03:16 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by pink freud View Post
By NOT putting out the fire and instead waiting until it reached the neighbor's property (who had payed for the service) the VFD should be held liable for recklessly endangering the neighbors property, as they could have prevented the fire from reaching said property to begin with.
Well if we're going to play the blame-game, I'd start at the source. Blame the family who recklessly lit fires on their property and subsequently caused THEIR own property to burn down AND damaged their neighbors property. Because if you take the VFD out of the equation and remove the $75 fee as well, you're left with a family that let a fire on their own property get out of control in an area where it's likely that EVEN if they HAD paid the $75 fee, the fire STILL would have burned down their property AND damaged their neighbors.

People need to take responsibility for their actions (and INACTION).
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Unread 10-06-2010, 03:16 PM   #25
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By NOT putting out the fire and instead waiting until it reached the neighbor's property (who had payed for the service) the VFD should be held liable for recklessly endangering the neighbors property, as they could have prevented the fire from reaching said property to begin with.
There is that point too, a fire is a hazard to everyone as they can be unpredictable. Something could have exploded, the fire could have spread and then what?
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