[Kronpox]

Help needed!

Right now I know virtually nothing about the whole world of synth guitar. I understand the basic principles and I've seen videos of what a properly set-up synth guitar can do, but I have some questions about what I'm trying to achieve.

My custom 8 is going to have a Hipshot bridge- Graphtech makes Ghost saddles that will fit in this, right? If not, do I have any other options? Does Graphtech sell individual saddles so I don't have an extra 4 lying around?

All I really want to be able to do is trigger a few decent synth patches for instruments like piano and strings (as well as maybe a few weird noisy ones) and I really want to be able to run these sounds through my guitar head. Or at least have the sound come out of the cab, able to be blended with the magnetic pickups' tone. Is this typically easy, or do people generally use two different amps if they don't have the option of running through a PA?

What are my options for converters and synth modules? I know Roland is toted around pretty much exclusively, but are they the only ones making these kinds of products? Again I don't kneed the most complicated modules, just some good instrument sounds and I'm happy.

Thanks in advance for educating a complete newbie on the topic

[darren]

I'm pretty sure you can call up GraphTech and custom-order an 8-string setup. (Great Canadian company!)

They'll probably also give you instructions on how to work with their preamp to get it to work with 8 strings, as all synth gear is designed around hexaphonic (6-channel) input.

You're going to want to use a separate amp for the synth stuff. Guitar amps won't do it justice, and that way, you'll also have the option of blending distorted guitar sounds with pristine synth sounds. You can get some pretty decent keyboard monitors (Yorkville makes a few) then run the main synth signal to the PA when you play bigger shows.

For Guitar-to-MIDI convertors, you have a few options:

Product Overview :: AXON ::

Roland U.S. - Guitar Synths/MIDI Converters

As far as i know, the Roland GR-20 is the only unit currently on the market that has an integrated synth module. All the other units are just pitch-to-MIDI and you'd have to use either a rack-mounted synth module, a MIDI keyboard or a computer as your sound source. There are a number of older Roland units as well that are compatible with GK pickup input.

[Kronpox]

A separate amp for the synth stuff is really not feasible. It's barely feasible that I bring my whole stack out to shows, let alone a whole other rig for synths that make an appearance on maybe three songs. My Vetta can bypass the preamp, so it'll be better for doing the synths 'justice', but I do hear what you're saying. I just don't want to make this an ordeal weighing in at $2500 and 80 lbs just so I can play some piano bits

The newer Axon rackmount guitar-to-midi unit apparently has a soundbank in it with like 500 different voices. So I'd just plug my 13-pin cable into that, and out comes sound... I hope? I like having that stuff in a rack as opposed to on the floor- especially whenever I get around to the rackmount X3 Pro/Tube Poweramp route, the whole rig would be in one rack- which leads me to that question, I could run the X3 through one side of a poweramp, and the Axon through the other side, and have my fun that way? Maybe split into two separate cabs for the two units (I'd get like a 2x12 for the synth).

Okay now I'm rambling. Thanks for the info darren, I've got to think about this stuff more before I decide if it's worth it or not. One last question- What kind of MIDI synth rack modules are available? My only experience with MIDI synths are VSTis.

[darren]

If you're playing big enough shows that you're playing a full stack, you're probably better off sending the synth direct to the PA and having it nice and loud in your monitor mix.

Sound Modules from zZounds.com

You can probably find all kinds of older ones used. There don't seem to be as many on the market any more, as VSTIs and soft synths have really taken over that space.

[dpm]

Sending the synth to guitar speakers is a big tonal compromise so avoid it if at all possible. As Darren said, seperate the two and send the synth to the PA. Using a dual mono power amp rig could be cool in smaller venues and rehearsals but you need that second cab to be a full range unit, like a PA speaker, or a bass cab at worst. You could maybe grab a powered PA wedge for that kind of use.

The Graphtech saddles are the best option IMO, though there others. They'll put an 8 string set together no problem, this is what I have them do for me via my local distributor. However, synth-ing all 8 strings is a little complex and compromised (depending on how you do it, and I know you don't want to be doing it the uncompromised way.... ie. 2 simultaneous synth rigs), so it might be best if you just get a set of 6 + 2 standard saddles, assuming you don't want a piezo output as well.

[Scarpie]

you can't use all 8 strings for guitar synthesis, all synth modules only process 6 strings. you can however use ghost/piezo acoustic sounds through all 8 but not synth. the only way around this is if you use two synth preamps in guitar with two midi outputs to two different synth modules, making it either 4 strings to one module and the other 4 to module #2, or first six strings to one module and then the remaining two strings to another module, but this setup requires at least three rigs.

and you are going to want to seperate synth/guitar sounds otherwise your synth patches will play through same channel of amp as your magnetic pickups. not helpful if you play with distortion.

[Kronpox]

Alright, I've basically concluded that there's no way this is financially or spacially effective right now considering how much mileage I would get out of a synth rig. I guess this plan goes on the ever-growing list of 'someday' plans

Thanks for the help guys. At least I know more about this stuff now

[jazzsinger]

Don't give ups so soon. Do you really need to have synth on more than six strings? The tracking wouldn't be as good on the lower notes anyway, and you wouldn't want to play more than four strings at a time for a piano sound (since finger picking is the best way to do piano). Plus you can set it up to play different octives for different strings, so you can get very low notes even using your high strings. I suggest you go with the Ghost system on strings 1-6 (perhaps do the others as well if you want piezo acoustic) and play the synth parts on only those strings. Running into a PA would be best, but it's not bad into a clean guitar amp especially for things like strings and organ or "weird noisy ones."

[Kronpox]

Thanks for the response... I know I definitely need synth on the upper 7 strings for some of the chordal stuff I do. Can someone explain the problem with using more than 6 strings for synth? I know that most converters are built to accept 6 inputs, but if you blended two saddles into one signal then would it still work as long as you're not hitting notes on those two strings at once?

I have pretty good faith that running a synth signal into a clean guitar head (preamp bypassed, like running straight into a poweramp) then into a guitar cab would produce at least a believable synth sound, though I might have to EQ it to compensate for the voicing of the cab.

other question, if I'm running my guitar mags into the preamp and run the synth output into the effects return (ie straight into the poweramp) would both signals come through the cab at once, and the synth be clean? Will this blow anything up?

[jazzsinger]

The first problem is just as you said: converters are made for six inputs. You've given one possible solution which GraphTech seems to think is less than adequate. That doesn't mean you can't try it. I plan to. Right now I have a Godin six string with RMC electronics and a seven string with an internal Roland pickup. Since the seven string has three bass strings (through a P Bass pickup) and four guitar strings (through Red and Blue Lace Sensors), I'm content only using the guitar strings for synth (except when I want to "hold" a strings or organ patch perhaps). But I still plan to get a better seven string and use the Ghost system all the way through, maybe with two acoustic preamps, one for bass and one for guitar, but certainly with a hex preamp.

I usually run guitar synth into an acoustic guitar amp or a bass amp (with a tweeter) and it sounds great. But I have plugged it into my little Gibson GA-5 tube amp as well. The hot guitar pickup would overdrive, but the synth would not at the level I had it. Obviously it's not as clear since there's no tweeter, but it still sounded good especially for strings and organ. Even the piano was believable.

As long as your effects return doesn't cut the rest of the signal out, it should work okay. The synth should be okay without a preamp since it's probably line level (and if it's not hot enough, you'll just need to use something like a clean mic/acoustic guitar preamp) and it will probably be pretty clean sounding since the effects return is unaffected by the guitar preamp. When you do try it, turn the synth volume up gradually just in case.