WTF happened to my EMG 85?? - Suddenly distorting all cleans

[Rev2010]

It's NOT the battery! I've tried 3 brand new ones. It's also not the cable, I've tried two different ones. Anyhow, I've played my BC Rich Warlock clean plenty of times and have never ever had breakup. Matter of fact, I once tried the Blackouts and returned them with one of the main reasons being cleans always played with some breakup, they were too darn hot for my liking.

Anyhow, today I plug in to mess around with a tone test and am having awful breakup playing clean. It happens plugged into my mixer, into my Mesa Triple, etc. Here's the odd part, even rolling back the volume nearly all the way I still hear it!! So the volume rollback does not reduce it. It also does not happen when I switch fully to the neck pickup (an EMG 81 - I reversed positioned when I bought it).

I've opened the control cavity and everything looks peachy keen, all connections are solid. Could a pickup just go bad like this out of nowhere? Am I missing something? What else could cause this? It's driving me nuts, ruined my night now since instead of doing what I wanted I had to go into troubleshooting mode


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[ibanez4lifesz]

Have you tried contacting EMG? Their customer service was GREAT last time I spoke with them.

Eric

[Rev2010]

Originally Posted by ibanez4lifesz

Have you tried contacting EMG? Their customer service was GREAT last time I spoke with them.

Heh, no it just occurred within the past hour or so and I've been trying to figure out the issue. They probably aren't even open at this hour. Figured I'd check here first to see if anyone is aware of the issue and what to do.


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[Rev2010]

Ya know, thinking about it the most logical thing to me sounds like the internal preamp must be going bad.


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[ZOMB13]

How old is it ?

[Rev2010]

Will be 2 years old in May. So not old at all.


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[Purelojik]

i say dissassemble everything. then put it back. if that doesnt work then you might be outta luck. that sucks too. fingers crossed bro

[Rev2010]

Well, I called EMG and spoke to Rick. He said to send him the pickup and he'll test it out.


Rev.

[1b4n3z]

Just checking - you did try the 81 in place of the 85 already? That's a pretty good test IMO

[Konfyouzd]

You mentioned the internal preamp going bad... What are some signs of this sort of thing. I have an OLD SCHOOL EMG (no quick-connect) and it's been behaving very strangely lately.

[Rev2010]

Originally Posted by Konfyouzd

You mentioned the internal preamp going bad... What are some signs of this sort of thing. I have an OLD SCHOOL EMG (no quick-connect) and it's been behaving very strangely lately.

Not sure, I was just speculating. This is only the second time I've owned EMG's, third time considering I have EMG 808's in my Schecter Riot 8 - and that one plays clean perfectly of course. I've done some reading around the net and some suggest lowering the pickup height which I haven't done yet and will try tonight. I still have doubts that will help since I haven't changed the height at all and it's been working fine up till yesterday, but it's worth a shot.

@1b4n3z - I haven't yet and may not even bother. I know for a fact my EMG's were always clean. As mentioned earlier when I tried the Blackouts I hated how all the cleans clipped because it's simply a super hot pickup, many have mentioned this. When I put the EMG back in I intentionally tried to clip playing very hard while clean and still the sound wouldn't breakup. Now even if I play light on the lower strings especially it clips noticeably.


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[Konfyouzd]

Do you notice anything that looks off in the control cavity? Maybe something touching where shouldn't...? Probably not the case, but you never know and with EMG wiring being as simple as it is, it might be easy to spot.

[Rev2010]

Originally Posted by Konfyouzd

Do you notice anything that looks off in the control cavity? Maybe something touching where shouldn't...? Probably not the case, but you never know and with EMG wiring being as simple as it is, it might be easy to spot.

Everything in the cavity is beautiful - neatly soldered, all cabling is neatly zip tied, etc. I'll report back after lowering the pickup height on whether that helped. I just checked the date on the clean recorded song I was messing with and apparently it's dated before I did the EMG/Blackout test. Perhaps it's possible I raised the pickup too high when reinstalling the EMG. There were several months I haven't played that guitar since I've been working on material for my bands next electronic/industrial release... aaaand... when I have played it I think I've been playing it all distorted and have been using a Korg tuner to tune rather than have to turn on and plug into my GT-10. Hmmm... while outlandish it's certainly possible.

Will have to test tonight and report back. I really hope it's as simple as that.


Rev.

[ZOMB13]

That is really strange, your strumming ?

[Rev2010]

Ok, I came home and tested lowering the bridge pickup and sure enough it went away, though I had to lower it nearly flush with the pickup ring. I don't recall it ever being that low but it really must just be me as I raised the neck pickup to see if it did the same thing and sure enough the neck pickup also clips when raised higher.

So, so far it's really seeming the fault is all mine. Seems at some point, likely after the Duncan Blackout comparison, I didn't return the pickup to its original height. And since I've been working on my other project and not playing it clean for so long it went unnoticed. Herp derp moment here it seems.


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[ArrowHead]

Originally Posted by Rev2010

Ok, I came home and tested lowering the bridge pickup and sure enough it went away, though I had to lower it nearly flush with the pickup ring. I don't recall it ever being that low but it really must just be me as I raised the neck pickup to see if it did the same thing and sure enough the neck pickup also clips when raised higher.

So, so far it's really seeming the fault is all mine. Seems at some point, likely after the Duncan Blackout comparison, I didn't return the pickup to its original height. And since I've been working on my other project and not playing it clean for so long it went unnoticed. Herp derp moment here it seems.


Rev.

No, something is wrong. Maybe your amp settings are too hot in addition, but EMG pickups are meant to be set as high as you can. You should NOT have to lower it to the pickup rings. In their instructions, EMG even mention that because of the weaker magnetic field you should install the pickups as close to the strings as possible.

[Rev2010]

Originally Posted by ArrowHead

No, something is wrong. Maybe your amp settings are too hot in addition, but EMG pickups are meant to be set as high as you can. You should NOT have to lower it to the pickup rings. In their instructions, EMG even mention that because of the weaker magnetic field you should install the pickups as close to the strings as possible.

I've already said it's doing this both through my mixer direct and through the amp. What EMG says in their literature and what occurs in the real world are two different things. All pickups get hotter closer to the strings. Matter of fact, searching around about EMG's clipping all the suggestions I found people recommending to others is to lower the EMG. The simple fact that if I raise the neck pickup closer to the strings and get the same clipping that the bridge is doing is enough to seal the situation for me.

I've lowered the pickup to just slightly over the rings and all is working fine now.


Rev.

[ArrowHead]

Don't lecture me, sir. All pickups are hotter close to the strings. EMG magnets are much weaker than a typical hot passive pickup. I run three separate sets jammed right up as close as possible without buzzing. If you need to drop the pickup down to the ring, something IS WRONG. You should be able to crank them right up next to the strings.

Don't ask for help then lecture the people giving it to you. Not cool.

Originally Posted by Rev2010

What EMG says in their literature and what occurs in the real world are two different things.

Not when coupled with my own 25+ years of experience with EMG pickups, Rev. What YOU are experiencing is not normal.

[Konfyouzd]

I think we should just all rejoice that homeboy's axe is acting better. We shouldn't still be frustrated if the issue has been "resolved" even if some of us still think there may be a problem. OP is happy and I thought that was the point of the thread...?

[ArrowHead]

Originally Posted by Konfyouzd

I think we should just all rejoice that homeboy's axe is acting better. We shouldn't still be frustrated if the issue has been "resolved" even if some of us still think there may be a problem. OP is happy and I thought that was the point of the thread...?

If he's happy with the shortcut, that's fine. I just didn't appreciate a lecture on how the pickups I've used for a very long time are supposed to work, and how both EMG and myself are doin it wrong.

[Konfyouzd]

[Rev2010]

Arrowhead, you sure have a temper that needs taming. I didn't lecture you, I stated facts that all pickups get hotter closer to the strings. If searching around the net all the info pointed to lowering the pickups and that's what resolved it I can't see how its a problem. Due to the fact I keep my Floyd nice and low to the body it's not at all like the pickup is far off from strings, actually it's about the same amount away as my Duncan JB in my schecter. I do a bunch of clean shit so it matters to me. If you'd be so kind why not do me a favor and raise your EMG right up to the strings and record playing a strummed clean part and see if you have clipping. As mentioned, if I raise the 81 in the neck it also starts to internally clip. If you think something is still wrong please try helping with a suggestion as to *what* may be causing it rather than get all pissy at me over nothing.


Rev.

[ArrowHead]

Originally Posted by Rev2010

I stated facts that all pickups get hotter closer to the strings.

Correct. However, EMG pickups create a much weaker field than passive pickups. So while all pickups are hotter, EMG's are still creating a weaker field than a typical passive pickup.

It's not a temper. I tried to help you, and got a cocky response trying to tell me how pickups work.

I have two brand new pickups right next to me. I'll open one and copy the literature verbatim for you:

"EMG Active Pickups have very little magnetism compared to passive pickups. We recommend you adjust the pickups as close to the strings as possible. Sustain and string movement will not be inhibited by close adjustment."

On my Les Paul, my bridge pickup is as close as I can get it without the strings hitting it and vibrating. I'd guess a little less than 1/4 inch. The bridge is a tad further away. This is the cleanest clip I have with that guitar. I actually prefer passive pickups, and don't care for EMGs, although I have a set of EMG-x I have not tried yet.

SoundClick artist: Black 13 - Gruff home brewed power metal meets progressive rock.

As for your actual problem, set your pickups the recommended way and start from there. Adjust your amp settings, and if it's still clipping talk to EMG. It's likely the preamp. It wouldn't hurt to try another new battery from a fresh pack as well, a bad battery is not beyond belief. A dead battery can cause clipping, crackling, and ugly sounds of the sort you describe.

Don't talk down to someone trying to help you. I don't need help with my temper - you need help with your pickup.

[TRENCHLORD]

I have the regular81 in everything.
Mine are at 3.5mm (1/8") from the 6th string at bridge, and 3.0mm at 1st string at bridge.

I've spent hours and hours fiddle....ing back and forth on each guitar and always end up very close to these measurements.

This is with 52s in D tuning.
Bigger strings played loud will likely cause more clipping inside the pickups internal preamp, so backing them off a bit or modding for 18v is often done by super-low tuners.

[Rev2010]

As trenchlord states "bigger strings" I am indeed using heavy gauge strings as I tune down to B. I use 14-58 strings. I also read online when looking this up that heavier strings may require lowering the pickup height.

@arrowhead - Not going to waste my time anymore going back and forth with you about my original reply to you. Btw, I did say I tried 3 brand new 9v's.


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