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Unread 02-20-2010, 07:15 AM   #1
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Fretboard Dyeing Failed

So I followed the instructions, put the dye on for an hour then wiped it off... I noticed when using a eraser on the inlays the dye around them would completely go... so I tried again and same thing... Then I tried a third time but left the dye on for 48 hours. This morning got some lemon oil so went to clean the fretboard inlays with a eraser and guess what? The dye came off again.

Here is a pic:



I tried rubbing off non-inlayed frets to show the dye come off, it basically goes back to the original FB colour. Any ideas of what I should do?

The steps I took were:

1. Clean with white spirit. I also put some linseed oil on for 10 mins and wiped it off, dunno why just felt good. Couldn't find wood conditioner.
2. Put dye on with cotton budd. I put 3 thin layers on, this as in no overspills would occur. I kinda "painted" it on with the cotton.
3. Wiped/buffed and used eraser.

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Unread 02-20-2010, 07:48 AM   #2
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Linseed oil is more like a varnish than an oil, and after applying that you're not going to get much dye to soak into the wood.
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Unread 02-20-2010, 07:56 AM   #3
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after putting linseed oil on you'll be lucky to get the dye to soak in at all, especially after letting the linseed oil sit for 10 mins. I weatherproofed my parents garden bench with linseed oil
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Unread 02-20-2010, 08:46 AM   #4
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So what would you recommend? Should I just wipe off all the dye and refret, then attempt to dye it again in like six months when the oil wears out or is there anopther way around it?

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Unread 02-20-2010, 10:01 AM   #5
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Maybe give the fretboard a light sanding to get the oil finish off, then try again on bare wood.
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Unread 02-20-2010, 10:16 AM   #6
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Maybe give the fretboard a light sanding to get the oil finish off, then try again on bare wood.
this was my first instinct too, but its something I personally would think twice about. afterall if you sand over the inlays theyll lose the glass like finish of the MOP and be covered in loads of little scratches, itll then take about 12 hours of sanding and polishing to put them right... plus itll be a bastard to sand around them
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Unread 02-20-2010, 10:19 AM   #7
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Maybe give the fretboard a light sanding to get the oil finish off, then try again on bare wood.


Also, you may want to consider stripping the fretboard with a lacquer stripper. Though, make sure to find one that won't destroy your inlays. Read the back label.

Then properly condition the board with pre-stain conditioner, apply a thick coat of oil based stain. Let it sit over night, and then clean off the excess in the morning. You should be able to just wipe off the excess with some paper towels, and that goes for the inlays as well.

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this was my first instinct too, but its something I personally would think twice about. afterall if you sand over the inlays theyll lose the glass like finish of the MOP and be covered in loads of little scratches, itll then take about 12 hours of sanding and polishing to put them right... plus itll be a bastard to sand around them
Actually, as long as you go over them with a little steel wool they'll shine right up. Worked for me when I re-dotted my RG7620, and didn't effect the pyramids on my UV777PBK.

You forget that they radius sand the fretboard with the inlays installed at the factory when they make the guitar.

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Last edited by MaxOfMetal; 02-20-2010 at 10:21 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Unread 02-20-2010, 10:28 AM   #8
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Actually, as long as you go over them with a little steel wool they'll shine right up. Worked for me when I re-dotted my RG7620, and didn't effect the pyramids on my UV777PBK.

You forget that they radius sand the fretboard with the inlays installed at the factory when they make the guitar.
wow, you learn something new everyday, didnt know they shined up that easily
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Unread 02-20-2010, 10:32 AM   #9
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wow, you learn something new everyday, didnt know they shined up that easily
Granted, it'll add about 15 to 20 minutes to the project, but it's certainly worth it. Especially seeing as he has the frets off, which makes it infinitely easier.

OP:
If you sand, use a radius sanding block, you can get them for fairly cheap in nearly any radius, and you can even make them if you have the proper tools. They'll also help you properly radius the frets.

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Unread 02-20-2010, 11:29 AM   #10
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I've been using 0000 steel wool and white spirit for the last half hour and managed to get about 70% of the FB to original colour. I sanded one fret with 400grit sandpaper - just the top layer, I think I might try dying that one fret to see if it soaks in. I hope the linseed oil didn't go deep.

I don't have radius blocks or a radius guage to determine the radius. I do plan on buying some in the future, but for this project I just wanna get done fast since it's been 7 months now with no guitar, plus chances are if I'm buying guitar specific tools I'll have to import from somewhere and pay loads + wait ages.

As for fret bending, I made a fret bander but It doesn't work well with pre-cut wire. I think I'll just clamp the frets in a vice and hand bend them to the right radius.

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Unread 02-20-2010, 01:33 PM   #11
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i dont know if this is plausible, however why dont you consider making it a flat fingerboard, or as Patrick ......... calls it, an "infinite radius". that way you dont have the problem of fret bending

might be possible? not quite sure, but it doesnt sound implausible...
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Unread 02-20-2010, 01:39 PM   #12
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i dont know if this is plausible, however why dont you consider making it a flat fingerboard, or as Patrick ......... calls it, an "infinite radius". that way you dont have the problem of fret bending

might be possible? not quite sure, but it doesnt sound implausible...
That would work, as long as the nut and bridge have the same "infinite" radius, or else the action would be horribly unbalanced across the strings.

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Unread 02-20-2010, 01:58 PM   #13
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That would work, as long as the nut and bridge have the same "infinite" radius, or else the action would be horribly unbalanced across the strings.
so something like an FR would be ok with the "infinite radius" idea, but a TOM would be disastrous...?
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Unread 02-20-2010, 02:02 PM   #14
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so something like an FR would be ok with the "infinite radius" idea, but a TOM would be disastrous...?
Actually, FRs have a radius as well (usually 10" - 12" for OFR/LFR, and 17" for Ibanez), though the saddles can be shimmed to different radii. As for TOMs, you can gauge the saddles to follow any radius as well.

In fact you can use just about any bridge as long as you know what you are doing, and have the proper tools.

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Unread 02-20-2010, 02:04 PM   #15
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Actually, FRs have a radius as well (usually 10" - 12" for OFR/LFR, and 17" for Ibanez), though the saddles can be shimmed to different radii. As for TOMs, you can gauge the saddles to follow any radius as well.

In fact you can use just about any bridge as long as you know what you are doing, and have the proper tools.

yeah I knew about shimming FRs but not about TOMs. good to know, cheers
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Unread 02-20-2010, 06:10 PM   #16
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Good luck getting a flat radius locking nut.
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Unread 02-20-2010, 06:19 PM   #17
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Good luck getting a flat radius locking nut.
Good thing they're fairly easy to make with a proper needle file, and some patience.

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Unread 02-20-2010, 06:33 PM   #18
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Good thing they're fairly easy to make with a proper needle file, and some patience.
What, you're gonna file the whole surface down? Filing the individual strings would make the locking nut useless.
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Unread 02-20-2010, 06:42 PM   #19
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What, you're gonna file the whole surface down?
Why not? You're only going to have to remove about 1mm or so of material from a 17" radius nut. The channel in between the teeth (where the locking nut pads grip the strings) is a uniform width, and from the nut I have in my hand (Ibanez 6-string off of an RG470) it's about 14mm. A quick check of some of my files shows I have a handful that will fit almost perfectly in that channel, with a bunch more smaller ones to use if I needed. As well as some very steep angled triangle files.

I can only imagine a luthier or metal shop with significantly better tools and more refined methods could certainly make short work of the task.

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Unread 02-20-2010, 06:51 PM   #20
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Meh, could be fun.

Last edited by Toshiro; 02-20-2010 at 06:52 PM. Reason: Not thinking, too much beer, not enough sleep. LOL
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Unread 02-21-2010, 02:45 PM   #21
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Well my guess is that once you put linseed oil on a thirsty piece of wood it will take a substantial amount of sanding to get below that oil level.

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Unread 02-22-2010, 11:54 AM   #22
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Hi Just to update, I sanded pretty much all the board - not too deep, only the top layer, and cleaned it nice with white spirit again. After it dried I put a river of dye onto the board and it sucked it up nicely

Used an eraser so I can compare and the fretboard stayed black. I've just been buffing today to get rid of any remaining dye, but it's keeping its colour nicely :p

Now all I gottan do is put some lemon oil onto it and refret.

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Unread 02-22-2010, 12:31 PM   #23
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pics? I really like this project.
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Unread 02-22-2010, 03:25 PM   #24
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Hi Just to update, I sanded pretty much all the board - not too deep, only the top layer, and cleaned it nice with white spirit again. After it dried I put a river of dye onto the board and it sucked it up nicely

Used an eraser so I can compare and the fretboard stayed black. I've just been buffing today to get rid of any remaining dye, but it's keeping its colour nicely :p

Now all I gottan do is put some lemon oil onto it and refret.
Glad it worked out,I was afraid you would have to sand a lot off.

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Unread 02-23-2010, 04:15 AM   #25
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Sorry, but this sounds like a pain in the ass just to make a wood look different, and since the photo didn't load I am assuming you want rosewood to look more like ebony. A, you don't look at the frets when you are playing anyways [it'll give you a serious neck cramp/injury], B, buy an ebony board if it makes that much difference, and C, there are more colors than black.

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