[HumanFuseBen]

Those pickups are awesome.... why in the world has Dimarzio not made them in 7 string yet?

[zimbloth]

I wish they'd make an Air Norton 7 or Tone Zone 7 that actually resembled their 6-string counterparts first. I agree though, the Breed is pretty cool.

[onefingersweep]

Originally Posted by HumanFuseBen

Those pickups are awesome.... why in the world has Dimarzio not made them in 7 string yet?

Good question. It's a better pickup than ToneZone IMO.

[Toshiro]

They'd probably fuck it up and put a ceramic magnet into it. The Breeds are my favorite Dimarzio pickups, easily.

[onefingersweep]

Originally Posted by Toshiro

They'd probably fuck it up and put a ceramic magnet into it. The Breeds are my favorite Dimarzio pickups, easily.

The reason they change the magnet is because if they would do it exactly like the 6-string version the 7th string would be too loose, muddy sounding.

[7 Dying Trees]

Originally Posted by onefingersweep

The reason they change the magnet is because if they would do it exactly like the 6-string version the 7th string would be too loose, muddy sounding.

I swapped an alcino8 into an air norton7. Sounded much much nicer and smoother.

I've got a bareknuckle alcino5 cold sweat in the neck of a guitar, and that sounds awesome, so, to be honest, i don't think it's a valid excuse to be honest, especially for neck pickups.

Also, enough people use alcino5 based humbuckers on 6strings, tuned down to C,B or even A.

So basically, i reckon it's dimarzio being a bit lazy...

[ohio_eric]

Originally Posted by 7 Dying Trees

So basically, i reckon it's dimarzio being a bit lazy...

Seriously think it's either apathy or they have a really cheap source for ceramic magnets. The Dark Wolf has an Alnico 5 loaded Air Norton in his Ibanez he loves. Darren has an Alnico 8 in a Duncan Custom he loves.

So yeah Alnico magnets can do seven strings.

[caughtinamosh]

Originally Posted by onefingersweep

The reason they change the magnet is because if they would do it exactly like the 6-string version the 7th string would be too loose, muddy sounding.

My Bare Knuckle Nailbombs are incredibly clear when my guitar is tuned to B (and below). The magnets? Alnico 5s.

[onefingersweep]

Originally Posted by 7 Dying Trees

I swapped an alcino8 into an air norton7. Sounded much much nicer and smoother.

I've got a bareknuckle alcino5 cold sweat in the neck of a guitar, and that sounds awesome, so, to be honest, i don't think it's a valid excuse to be honest, especially for neck pickups.

Also, enough people use alcino5 based humbuckers on 6strings, tuned down to C,B or even A.

So basically, i reckon it's dimarzio being a bit lazy...

It's definitely valid. With that said it's still possible to do it tight enough with an alnico 5 but it's easier said than done. Dimarzio probably haven't figured out the formula for it, yet. I don't think Dimarzio are lazy, I know they do alot of work and they also have alot of other stuff going on... To call them lazy is definitely not fair and certainly not valid

[Toshiro]

Originally Posted by onefingersweep

The reason they change the magnet is because if they would do it exactly like the 6-string version the 7th string would be too loose, muddy sounding.

That's a cop-out, IMO. The Tone Zone 7 suffers from having the ceramic, a Breed 7 would also.

[Bloody_Inferno]

Originally Posted by Toshiro

That's a cop-out, IMO. The Tone Zone 7 suffers from having the ceramic, a Breed 7 would also.

That explains the Tone Zone 7 not being as good as the 6. And considering that the Breed is my favorite Dimarzio pickup, I don't want it to share the same fate as the Tone Zone. We'll just have to wait maybe.

[zimbloth]

Disclaimer: I am a DiMarzio fan. However...

Originally Posted by onefingersweep

The reason they change the magnet is because if they would do it exactly like the 6-string version the 7th string would be too loose, muddy sounding.

That's completely ridiculous. I had zero problem tuning down to B with the original Tone Zone in the right guitar, and like James said tons of metal guitarists use their alnico models in detuned 6s with great results.

They completely sucked the tone out of those models in an ill-conceived attempt to 'enhance' the low B. There was no need. The regular Tone Zone is capable of handling low tunings just fine, and the 7-string one is a disaster - even muddier IMO. The Air Norton 7 compared to the 6 lost so much of its richness and organic nature in the translation. Don't even get me started on the PAF7.

This idea that alnicos are automatically loose and therefore all the models that sounded so good as a 6-string should be remodeled is asinine - and yes, lazy. Instead of throwing a ceramic magnet on there and calling it a day, they could have built a great sounding pickup from scratch like they have in subsequent models or just not fucked with it.

There was no reason to redesign the pickups, it was very gimmicky. If people want a tighter sound from their existing models, they can get a tube screamer, good amp, or use another pickup that was properly designed for a ceramic magnet. Don't completely mess with great sounding pickups just to cater to the 7th string. It's a 7-string guitar, not a 1 string guitar. It's one thing to 'tune' the 7th coil differently like the Blaze (which given how unfriendly amps were in 1989 to B tuning made sense), but to just take a pickup and change everything about it and then talk about it like it has some sort of advanced technology is just insulting to our intelligence.

Originally Posted by onefingersweep

It's definitely valid. With that said it's still possible to do it tight enough with an alnico 5 but it's easier said than done. Dimarzio probably haven't figured out the formula for it, yet. I don't think Dimarzio are lazy, I know they do alot of work and they also have alot of other stuff going on... To call them lazy is definitely not fair and certainly not valid

There's no 'formula', they should just give people who like the original Tone Zone, Air Norton, etc the option to get that same sound from their 7s that they do with their 6s. When you get a Seymour Duncan SH5 for 7-string, it sounds the same as the 6. When you get a Bare Knuckle Painkiller 7, it sounds exactly like the 6. That's how it should be, IMO. They shouldn't assume people have shitty gear/strings and can't handle the original sound.

DiMarzio makes some really cool sounding ceramics, don't get me wrong (D-Activator, Super Distortion, etc) but I just think what they did to some of the classic 6-string models in their 7-string versions was tragic and unnecessary. A pickup that is properly designed from the ground up and built the right way will sound great regardless of if its alnico or ceramic. If you design a pickup completely halfass, it wont.

[onefingersweep]

I emailed Dimarzio and asked and this is the asnwer I got:

We feel we can get the same performance with 7-string pickups with ceramic magnets as other people get with Alnico (and that is what some of our patents are about). Ceramic is a more stable magnetic material in terms of maintaining a consistent magnetic field, and it makes the most sense to use with a relatively large pickup like a 7-string.

I also asked about if there is any chances they will make a 7-string Breed and this is the answer I got:

It’s unlikely. If you’re referring to the Breed neck model, you might have a look at the LiquiFire 7. It’s not exactly the same, but it can produce a very similar sound.

Originally Posted by Toshiro

That's a cop-out, IMO. The Tone Zone 7 suffers from having the ceramic, a Breed 7 would also.

How do you mean? That the 6th string is looser on the 7-string version? I haven't tried it but I seriusly doubt that, or actually I know thats not the case, not a chance. ToneZone is a really loose sounding pickup, especially with low tunings and high gain. Making it with ceramic magnet would definitely not make it more muddy, just less muddy.

[Toshiro]

Originally Posted by onefingersweep

How do you mean? That the 6th string is looser on the 7-string version? I haven't tried it but I seriusly doubt that, or actually I know thats not the case, not a chance. ToneZone is a really loose sounding pickup, especially with low tunings and high gain. Making it with ceramic magnet would definitely not make it more muddy, just less muddy.

The Tone Zone 7 sounds awful, and nothing like it's 6 string counterpart. If it did sound like the TZ6 you'd see more people with them.

Other companies make great sounding A5 7 string pickups, and if Dimarzio did I'd own a set right now.

[zimbloth]

Originally Posted by Toshiro

The Tone Zone 7 sounds awful, and nothing like it's 6 string counterpart. If it did sound like the TZ6 you'd see more people with them.

Other companies make great sounding A5 7 string pickups, and if Dimarzio did I'd own a set right now.

I agree totally man. The TZ7 is tragic. Hopefully they'll release a true version someday. I'll do my best to make that happen but I doubt they'll care what one dealer thinks.

I have the Liquifire and CrunchLab 7-string sets coming in this week, I'll test them out but I seriously doubt they will resemble the Breed at all.

[onefingersweep]

Originally Posted by Toshiro

The Tone Zone 7 sounds awful, and nothing like it's 6 string counterpart. If it did sound like the TZ6 you'd see more people with them.

Other companies make great sounding A5 7 string pickups, and if Dimarzio did I'd own a set right now.

I rephrase the question: In which way do you think it sounds worse?


Just by changing the magnet to Alnico 5 doesn't mean it will sound exactly like the 6-string version. Thats what I meant with finding the formula. Although, judgning by the answer from Steve Blucher thats probably not the reason. They simply don't want to have Alnico 5 magnet for their 7-strings it seems.

Originally Posted by zimbloth

I agree totally man. The TZ7 is tragic. Hopefully they'll release a true version someday. I'll do my best to make that happen but I doubt they'll care what one dealer thinks.

I have the Liquifire and CrunchLab 7-string sets coming in this week, I'll test them out but I seriously doubt they will resemble the Breed at all.

Why should they? It's basically Petrucci's signature pickups (although Petrucci don't put his name on pickups, which he should have done because the names suck ) he has never used Breed. Steve Blucher said you can get similar sounds with the LiquiFire, not the same.

[Toshiro]

Originally Posted by onefingersweep

I rephrase the question: In which way do you think it sounds worse?


Just by changing the magnet to Alnico 5 doesn't mean it will sound exactly like the 6-string version. Thats what I meant with finding the formula. Although, judgning by the answer from Steve Blucher thats probably not the reason. They simply don't want to have Alnico 5 magnet for their 7-strings it seems..

The TZ6 is a very thick sounding pickup to me, it's fat in the lows and mids, but still has the Dimarzio "aw" vowel sound. Lots of chunk. (I really prefer the Breed, which doesn't have as much low end, and lacks the "dual resonance" feature of the TZ.)

The TZ7 is overly warm, to the point of mud, like they were trying too hard to make it sound like an A5 pickup does naturally. It doesn't have the chunk the TZ6 has, IMO.

I agree with Zim, Dimarzio needs to stop worrying about the low string and worry more about a pickup sounding like it's name suggests.

[onefingersweep]

Originally Posted by Toshiro

The TZ6 is a very thick sounding pickup to me, it's fat in the lows and mids, but still has the Dimarzio "aw" vowel sound. Lots of chunk. (I really prefer the Breed, which doesn't have as much low end, and lacks the "dual resonance" feature of the TZ.)

The TZ7 is overly warm, to the point of mud, like they were trying too hard to make it sound like an A5 pickup does naturally. It doesn't have the chunk the TZ6 has, IMO.

I agree with Zim, Dimarzio needs to stop worrying about the low string and worry more about a pickup sounding like it's name suggests.

Okay, strange. I haven't tried it myself, I probably won't try it either since I don't like the 6-string version (for rhtyhm playing, I like it for soloing tho). I find it a bit strange that the 7-string version would be muddier since it has ceramic magnet and basically the same specs, which should make it more clear sounding actually, you are comparing the same pitch aren't you, so E vs E and not E vs B etc? And is that "wha", "wow" effect or whatever you wanna call it not present in the 7-string version?

[Konfyouzd]

so i have a question... with all this talk of magnets and swapping them out achieving better results, has anyone switched the magnet in a TZ7?

also, how the hell do you do that? (if there's a thread on this already please point me in the right direction)

[Toshiro]

Originally Posted by onefingersweep

Okay, strange. I haven't tried it myself, I probably won't try it either since I don't like the 6-string version (for rhtyhm playing, I like it for soloing tho). I find it a bit strange that the 7-string version would be muddier since it has ceramic magnet and basically the same specs, which should make it more clear sounding actually, you are comparing the same pitch aren't you, so E vs E and not E vs B etc? And is that "wha", "wow" effect or whatever you wanna call it not present in the 7-string version?

They had to tweak other aspects of the pickup to get that EQ with a ceramic mag, it's not a Tone Zone with longer coils and a ceramic mag, it's a completely different animal.

A 7 has a full 6 string guitar in it, it's easy to compare the E on a 7 to the E on a 6. I've also had to setup a guitar with a Tone Zone in B standard for someone, and it was no muddier than it was in standard.

All Dimarzios pretty much have that Aw sound, except maybe the D-Sonic, which is a weird pickup from them. The TZ7 has it, just not like the 6 string.

I gave up on Dimarzio 7's(I really wanted to like my D-Sonic-7, but it was noisier than a single coil sometimes) and run Blackouts now. The neck pickup in that set is definitely not muddy with it's A5 magnet.

I think a Breed-7 with a ceramic magnet would be awful, and the Breeds are by far my fav 6 string pickups.. Might as well buy a Blaze Custom, since the only difference would be output.

[Toshiro]

Originally Posted by Konfyouzd

so i have a question... with all this talk of magnets and swapping them out achieving better results, has anyone switched the magnet in a TZ7?

also, how the hell do you do that? (if there's a thread on this already please point me in the right direction)

I don't know what that would do. The windings, and gauge of wire used for them, might be different from the TZ6 enough that a magnet swap might produce strange results. Could work though, who knows?

[Konfyouzd]

Originally Posted by Toshiro

I don't know what that would do. The windings, and gauge of wire used for them, might be different from the TZ6 enough that a magnet swap might produce strange results. Could work though, who knows?

oh ok. i was just wondering because it sounds like a few of you have changed the magnets in other pups. i was just wondering why not this one, ya know?

[Toshiro]

Originally Posted by Konfyouzd

oh ok. i was just wondering because it sounds like a few of you have changed the magnets in other pups. i was just wondering why not this one, ya know?

Never know, I'm through with buying 7 string pickups though; too much modding, not enough playing going on.

[Konfyouzd]

Originally Posted by Toshiro

Never know, I'm through with buying 7 string pickups though; too much modding, not enough playing going on.

that's right you play 6ers, right?

[TonyFlyingSquirrel]

I think my EVO7 and my EVO6 are fairly consistent with each other.

Testing:
TFS6 gtr, Basswood body, Maple neck through, Indian Rosewood Fingerboard.
and
Ibby RG7620, Basswood body, Maple neck, Indian Rosewood Fingerboard.

On recordings where I've used the same preset for both guitars, it's nearly impossible to tell the difference until you get down into the "lower than E" territory pretty much telling you "that's the 7 string".

Part of my pre-production recordings were with different presets to see what translates with the most consistency on different playback systems while maintaining the overall tonal sensibilities that I felt these songs needed.

If I had differing models of pickups in the bridge position of these guitars, it would have been difficult at best to ascertain those things.