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Unread 11-28-2008, 08:41 PM   #26
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Don't get me wrong, it's horrible stuff...but how do a select few idiots solidify the claim that America has done it again?
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Unread 11-28-2008, 08:47 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by BigFlannel View Post
Don't get me wrong, it's horrible stuff...but how do a select few idiots solidify the claim that America has done it again?
Two hundred people trampled him to death and injured four other people. They also tore off the ....ing doors. And according to the reports of others this isn't the first time something like this has happened.

If this isn't capitalism in it's worst, most twisted form then I don't know what is. Turning people into mindless sheep. Rodents...
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Unread 11-28-2008, 08:51 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by ZeroSignal View Post
Two hundred people trampled him to death and injured four other people. They also tore off the ....ing doors. And according to the reports of others this isn't the first time something like this has happened.

If this isn't capitalism in it's worst, most twisted form then I don't know what is.
I'm not trying to sound confrontational, but it's 200 people out of 300 million. If people can't act in a respectable manner, it's their fault, not capitalism's. Would we rather have people crushed on a daily basis rushing towards the socialist soup stands?
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Unread 11-28-2008, 08:57 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by BigFlannel View Post
I'm not trying to sound confrontational, but it's 200 people out of 300 million. If people can't act in a respectable manner, it's their fault, not capitalism's. Would we rather have people crushed on a daily basis rushing towards the socialist soup stands?


Go, get a book on socialism. Read about socialist theory (and that doesn't necessarily mean Marx), and then check back with me. Seriously dude... That's awful.
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Unread 11-28-2008, 09:02 PM   #30
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Go, get a book on socialism. Read about socialist theory (and that doesn't necessarily mean Marx), and then check back with me. Seriously dude... That's awful.
I said it was awful dude. I'm not making light of it. Contrary to your belief I know quite a bit on political philosophy. I also know that where socialism looks great on paper, It fails to deliver in the real world. I personally am proud to live in America and have the freedoms that capitalism and John Locke's natural rights theory guarantee us. I'm not trying to belittle your opinion's, you're entitled to them. I'm just marginally offended by your reflection upon the majority of people based on the actions of a small group.
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Unread 11-28-2008, 09:13 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by BigFlannel View Post
I said it was awful dude. I'm not making light of it. Contrary to your belief I know quite a bit on political philosophy. I also know that where socialism looks great on paper, It fails to deliver in the real world. I personally am proud to live in America and have the freedoms that capitalism and John Locke's natural rights theory guarantee us. I'm not trying to belittle your opinion's, you're entitled to them. I'm just marginally offended by your reflection upon the majority of people based on the actions of a small group.
You obviously don't because a lot of European countries (and Scandinavian countries in particular) are quite socialist in many respects and they seem to be doing fine. (except for Iceland... )

You have to question what force is causing 200 people to break into a premises and kill a man and injure several others for the sake of buying gifts for a "festival" that inherently revolves around spending vast quantities of money.
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Unread 11-28-2008, 09:19 PM   #32
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You obviously don't because a lot of European countries (and Scandinavian countries in particular) are quite socialist in many respects and they seem to be doing fine. (except for Iceland... )

You have to question what force is causing 200 people to break into a premises and kill a man and injure several others for the sake of buying gifts for a "festival" that inherently revolves around spending vast quantities of money.
Okay, I understand that several European countries "seem" to be doing fine in their state of socialism. But try talking to them about healthcare. I don't want to plan my illnesses 6 months in advance, it defeats the purpose of healthcare. Things run far more smoothly if government plays a small role in people's personal lives as opposed to a large part. You, being from Dublin will hopefully understand this--> Take the IRA for example, Government started controling aspects of people's lives so the people rose up and killed MANY people because of it.
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Unread 11-28-2008, 09:26 PM   #33
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Okay, I understand that several European countries "seem" to be doing fine in their state of socialism. But try talking to them about healthcare. I don't want to plan my illnesses 6 months in advance, it defeats the purpose of healthcare. Things run far more smoothly if government plays a small role in people's personal lives as opposed to a large part. You, being from Dublin will hopefully understand this--> Take the IRA for example, Government started controling aspects of people's lives so the people rose up and killed MANY people because of it.
OK, I hope you understand the concept of Universal Healthcare. It means that if someone gets unwell they have the same amount of cover as anyone else regardless of income or social standing, which usually means (in a good system like France... or.. well anywhere outside of Ireland) that you've got a very good level of care. People who have the money available can get health insurance and get access to private healthcare if they feel like it. Everybody wins.

Things do not run smoothly when the government simply throws the underprivileged or non-wealthy people out into the cold to fend for themselves. How the hell are they supposed to pay for hospital expenses if they are ill and cannot work? Or if they were just squeaking by in the first place?

Dude. Seriously. This is way too far. You even bring a terrorist organisation into this? There was no "controling" involved by the government. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are just further damaging your credibility, in my eyes at least.
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Unread 11-28-2008, 09:32 PM   #34
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1. America is NOT a pure, free-market laissez fair economy. It's a mixed economy, like most places, with elements that are both, to use the terms, 'socialist' and 'capitalist.' (Although, as we see, the trend for the last 20-30 years has been an over-emphasis on the 'capitalist' side of the equation, hence all of our problems lately. ) You need both elements, American has both.

2. How the hell is this tragedy about economic theory, or nationalistic politics? It has nothing to do with either! It is a failure of the human race, and of those 200 or so people in particular. I don't see anything in the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, the works of Marx, Locke, Hobbes, Smith, Keynes, Galbraith, or Friedman, that calls for this kind of idiocy! For ....'s sake.

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Unread 11-28-2008, 09:34 PM   #35
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OK, I hope you understand the concept of Universal Healthcare. It means that if someone gets unwell they have the same amount of cover as anyone else regardless of income or social standing, which usually means (in a good system like France... or.. well anywhere outside of Ireland) that you've got a very good level of care. People who have the money available can get health insurance and get access to private hospitals if they feel like it. Everybody wins.

Dude. Seriously. This is way too far. You even bring a terrorist organisation into this? There was no "controling" involved by the government. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and are just further damaging your credibility, in my eyes at least.
It's an example of extremity. In a perfect world universal Healthcare would ensure everyone gets a good level of healthcare, in that aspect you are correct. However, you fail to realize that it does not work that way. Why would someone go through 8+ years of schooling to get paid the same as a military doctor? the answer is that they don't, they open private practices and charge alot more, therefore they primarily ensure that only the wealthy get the best care. I'm sorry if I offended anybody, and i appologize for getting marginally off topic. Take care zerosignal, albeit the differences, it has been a pleasure.

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1. America is NOT a pure, free-market laissez fair economy. It's a mixed economy, like most places, with elements that are both, to use the terms, 'socialist' and 'capitalist.' (Although, as we see, the trend for the last 20-30 years has been an over-emphasis on the 'capitalist' side of the equation, hence all of our problems lately. ) You need both elements, American has both.

2. How the hell is this tragedy about economic theory, or nationalistic politics? It has nothing to do with either! It is a failure of the human race, and of those 200 or so people in particular. I don't see anything in the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, the works of Marx, Locke, Hobbes, Smith, Keynes, Galbraith, or Friedman, that calls for this kind of idiocy! For ....'s sake.
I'm sorry wolf, I was just offended by the Blame America crowd. We all have our opinions and I respect that.

Last edited by BigFlannel; 11-28-2008 at 09:36 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Unread 11-28-2008, 09:36 PM   #36
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It's an example of extremity. In a perfect world universal Healthcare would ensure everyone gets a good level of healthcare, in that aspect you are correct. However, you fail to realize that it does not work that way. Why would someone go through 8+ years of schooling to get paid the same as a military doctor? the answer is that they don't, they open private practices and charge alot more, therefore they primarily ensure that only the wealthy get the best care. I'm sorry if I offended anybody, and i appologize for getting marginally off topic. Take care zerosignal, albeit the differences, it has been a pleasure.
Likewise.

Perhaps we could continue this another time.

Apologies TDW for bringing the thread offtopic.
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Unread 11-28-2008, 09:41 PM   #37
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I changed the thread title too, since last time I checked, Americans don't have a monopoly on idiocy.

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Unread 11-28-2008, 09:52 PM   #38
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Wow, that was a civil argument...I'm impressed. Also with Wolfy.

This is quite sad indeed, it's nothing new and it's not surprising since this has been happening every year for as long as I can remember, and it's one of the reasons why I hate holidays. Trampling over people so you can buy your spoiled brat of a kid a PS3 is one of the most idiotic things I can think of.
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Unread 11-28-2008, 09:57 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Wolf View Post
1. America is NOT a pure, free-market laissez fair economy. It's a mixed economy, like most places, with elements that are both, to use the terms, 'socialist' and 'capitalist.' (Although, as we see, the trend for the last 20-30 years has been an over-emphasis on the 'capitalist' side of the equation, hence all of our problems lately. ) You need both elements, American has both.

2. How the hell is this tragedy about economic theory, or nationalistic politics? It has nothing to do with either! It is a failure of the human race, and of those 200 or so people in particular. I don't see anything in the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, the works of Marx, Locke, Hobbes, Smith, Keynes, Galbraith, or Friedman, that calls for this kind of idiocy! For ....'s sake.
wins again.

This is an absolute failure of mob mentality. All these people were up way too early and got way too worked up about bargains and Christmas and what not and they all overreacted and now I would bet lots of them are going to have a totally shitty Christmas after getting charged with a crime.
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Unread 11-28-2008, 10:06 PM   #40
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Wow, that was a civil argument...I'm impressed. Also with Wolfy.

This is quite sad indeed, it's nothing new and it's not surprising since this has been happening every year for as long as I can remember, and it's one of the reasons why I hate holidays. Trampling over people so you can buy your spoiled brat of a kid a PS3 is one of the most idiotic things I can think of.
Yeah dude, and what about those parents that kill one another for that same ps3? try explaining that to a nine year old
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Unread 11-28-2008, 10:11 PM   #41
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If they're that hell bent on getting their kid that "perfect" gift, something he or she really wants. Order it off the ....ing internet a month or two before the rush.
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Unread 11-28-2008, 11:26 PM   #42
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Some quotes from the original article...

Quote:
A metal portion of the door was crumpled like an accordion.


Quote:
Among the bargains offered by Wal-Mart for Friday were Samsung 50-inch high definition Plasma TVs for less than $800.
That's very appropriate for a news article about someone's death, wouldn't you say so?

Quote:
Witnesses told the Daily News that before the store was closed, eager shoppers streamed past emergency crews as they worked furiously to save the worker's life.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Yes, I'm going to hell, I know, but this was truly entertaining for me.

More on topic though, no such rush occurred in my area. We had a decidedly red Friday around here. Stores were a bit busy, but I managed to get to a store, to my grandparents, back to the same store and home in no more time than it would have taken me had there been no traffic at all.

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Unread 11-28-2008, 11:29 PM   #43
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I don't really know how you find this funny dude.
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Unread 11-28-2008, 11:38 PM   #44
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I don't really know how you find this funny dude.
Simple. Death holds no moroseness for me. And that's not a joke.

Besides the 3rd quote, even though it really did happen, sounds so much like a movie scene it's ridiculous.

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Unread 11-28-2008, 11:42 PM   #45
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Danny - dude, you're a ....ing retard. And that's being insulting to retards.

Go ahead. Get pissed, give me a smart-ass comeback. I want a reason to ban you, you ....ing douchebag.

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Unread 11-29-2008, 01:11 AM   #46
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Its weird cause while yes all the known Wal-Marts around here were packed, the one unknown one I went to people were scrambling but still polite about it.

One of my coworkers actually had her carriage moved by someone because apparently she was "taking too long to look at the product in the flyer" to make sure it was the right one. Along with that some 6 year old bumped into her and then gave her the stink eye
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Unread 11-29-2008, 01:43 AM   #47
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some 6 year old bumped into her and then gave her the stink eye


no one got hurt just some crazy little 6 year old the rest of this story is just tragic the deaths are.
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Unread 11-29-2008, 03:09 AM   #48
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Exactly why I would want to avoid stores on the madness sales rush.
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Unread 11-29-2008, 03:42 AM   #49
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That is simply sick. How is this happening in a "developed" country? Are these people so rabid that they are willing to tear the doors off and trample a man to death? Is this really glorious capitalism in action? Fantastic...
Horrible.
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Unread 11-29-2008, 08:22 AM   #50
 
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I changed the thread title too, since last time I checked, Americans don't have a monopoly on idiocy.
Well now it sounds like it's Wal-marts fault or that its happened before.

So the next step is Long Islanders, but they haven't been known to mob either. I guess American Shoppers is next in line? If you're going to change it at least have it make sense.
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