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Unread 04-27-2012, 02:25 PM   #1
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I agree with this article so darn much...Piracy discussion

This popped up on UG today, great article...

If You Rip Music For Free, You Tick 'I Don't Care If My Fave Band Dies' Box | News @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

I don't think i've heard it put any better than she does. This is why there is no excuse for illegally downloading music - you're screwing with people's livelihood, and the bands you enjoy seeing and listening to. It seems metal fans are more inclined to steal than most from what i've seen.

Let me also add that the "Same as tape trading" argument is invalid, in that it requires friends to tape trade, who are always going to share things. Stealing from the internet is not the same. I know here's been a million discussions here on this, but the article hit a chord with me!
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Unread 04-27-2012, 03:08 PM   #2
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There are too many great bands that are unsigned and willing to give there stuff away for free or really cheap. There really is no reason to pirate.

Buts seriously, .... record companies.
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Unread 04-27-2012, 03:10 PM   #3
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I didn't get a chance to read the article, but I definitely agree with you: piracy is bad. There are millions of excuses why people do it, but rationalization doesn't make it any less wrong.
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Unread 04-27-2012, 03:11 PM   #4
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I'm gonna download what I want, and buy what I like.
Easy enough.

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Unread 04-27-2012, 03:12 PM   #5
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I dont think its bad. I wouldnt even be listening to any music other than top 40 if it wasnt for it
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Unread 04-27-2012, 03:18 PM   #6
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To be honest i have participated in these sorts of activities, but over the past 6 monthes really haved stopped.

It didnt make me buy anymore albums, but just stream them on spotify or youtube.

I only got bought the few cd's i did because I had excess money from working to afford preorders with a shirt and a cd for a few bands




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Unread 04-27-2012, 03:25 PM   #7
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I'm pretty sure these threads are just traps for anyone that admits to pirating.
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Unread 04-27-2012, 03:26 PM   #8
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I feel strongly that piracy is never justified. Unfortunately no matter how i explain it, no matter what analogies i come up with some people just dont understand and its actually extremely irritating how large the percentage of people is.

So this is one of those things i have come to ignore. We are outnumbered.

I had a conversation with a guy about this one day and another guy overheard it and asked me if i buy all my music and i said "yes of course" (which isnt true). He could not believe that i bought all the music i owned as he knows i have over 50gb of music. So he kept asking me throughout the day in disbelief. The next day he came to me and told me that he had bought 2 albums the night before that he had previously downloaded. Guess i inspired him lol.

That being said i do it myself occasionally and its still not justified. If i can afford it at the time i buy it.

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Unread 04-27-2012, 03:35 PM   #9
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To address the title of the article directly I really don't care if the bands I listen to disband, they don't mean that much to me as callous as that may seem.
I pay for the music I listen to willingly and will continue to do so and this girl can .... right off for being stupid enough to make an article with such a ridiculous headline. If someone in a band literally died their fans would care whether or not they paid to hear the music they were listening to as would many of the bands in their local scene.

"The metal scene will lose a lot of innovative, exciting and diverse bands and many fans will never get to see their fave bands live. What a boring, corporate, streamlined future to look forward to."
1
. No . It will only lose those bands who "innovated" because they felt there was money to be made doing it, there are plenty of innovative bands who have existed for years and never made a cent.
2. You don't get to see your favorite band live? Big ....ing deal.

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Unread 04-27-2012, 03:47 PM   #10
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Consider the source. Consider how a lot of new generation bands feel about downloading. Consider an opinion other than your own.

Then this can be a real discussion.
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What happened to Jeff? Funny how he dropped off the radar now that the entire Western world disagrees with his right wing bullshit.
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Unread 04-27-2012, 03:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brutalwizard View Post
To be honest i have participated in these sorts of activities, but over the past 6 monthes really haved stopped.
me too, ive definitely done it in the past, but over the last couple years i've stopped, mainly due to personal convictions. If we all pirated games, music, movies, then they wouldnt exist as we know them, because no one could afford to dump the resources into them to realize their vision.

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Unread 04-27-2012, 04:01 PM   #12
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I agree with the article to a point. But the fact is that if the internet did not exist and illegal downloading were not possible people still would not buy the CD's and even worse would probably not know about a lot of the bands they listen to , unless of course they listen to radio music. The internet is a great way to get your music out there but it comes with a price and most bands today should know that going into it. Im not saying it is right but if one starts a band these days they should know exactly what they are getting into and that it is out of their control who DL's their music illegally . It is kind of like becoming a teacher and expecting to get paid well, they should know going down that career path that it does not pay much. The fact that a lot of teachers definitely deserve higher compensation for their hard work doesn't matter as it probably isn't going to happen. That being said I do buy most of my music but when i find a new band I usually just listen to their music on youtube and if they come through were I live I go to their show.
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Unread 04-27-2012, 04:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necris View Post
To address the title of the article directly I really don't care if the bands I listen to disband, they don't mean that much to me as callous as that may seem.
I pay for the music I listen to willingly and will continue to do so and this girl can .... right off for being stupid enough to make an article with such a ridiculous headline. If someone in a band literally died their fans would care whether or not they paid to hear the music they were listening to as would many of the bands in their local scene.

"The metal scene will lose a lot of innovative, exciting and diverse bands and many fans will never get to see their fave bands live. What a boring, corporate, streamlined future to look forward to."
1
. No . It will only lose those bands who "innovated" because they felt there was money to be made doing it, there are plenty of innovative bands who have existed for years and never made a cent.
2. You don't get to see your favorite band live? Big ....ing deal.
Sounds like you have a personal issue playing into your response here.

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Unread 04-27-2012, 04:28 PM   #14
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I don't actually.
My perspective on the bands in metal who complain about illegal downloading is that if one minute you complain that illegal downloading is killing music and then turn around and claim "If I were in this for the money I would be making pop." you're deluded at best and a hypocrite at the worst. Clearly if you have chosen to print shirts, press albums, pay for awesome artwork and spend hour upon hour promoting your band you are motivated on some level by profit. By choosing to make metal instead of "pop" you have made a terrible buisiness decision and by choosing to follow the career path of gigging musician in an age of downloading and youtube you're only digging yourself a deeper hole. Bands like that should stop being pussies afraid of being called sellouts and stop trying to distance themselves in interviews from people in the same exact industry as them while trying to claim they create purely for the art, they don't and they're assholes and liars for pretending to.
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Unread 04-27-2012, 04:32 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necris View Post
I don't actually.
My perspective on the bands in metal who complain about illegal downloading is that if one minute you complain that illegal downloading is killing music and then turn around and claim "If I were in this for the money I would be making pop." you're deluded at best and a hypocrite at the worst. Clearly if you have chosen to print shirts, press albums, pay for awesome artwork and spend hour upon hour promoting your band you are motivated on some level by profit. By choosing to make metal instead of "pop" you have made a terrible buisiness decision and by choosing to follow the career path of gigging musician in an age of downloading and youtube you're only digging yourself a deeper hole. Bands like that should stop being pussies afraid of being called sellouts and stop trying to distance themselves in interviews from people in the same exact industry as them while trying to claim they create purely for the art, they don't and they're assholes and liars for pretending to.

What happened to Jeff? Funny how he dropped off the radar now that the entire Western world disagrees with his right wing bullshit.
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Unread 04-27-2012, 04:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necris View Post
I don't actually.
My perspective on the bands in metal who complain about illegal downloading is that if one minute you complain that illegal downloading is killing music and then turn around and claim "If I were in this for the money I would be making pop." you're deluded at best and a hypocrite at the worst. Clearly if you have chosen to print shirts, press albums, pay for awesome artwork and spend hour upon hour promoting your band you are motivated on some level by profit. By choosing to make metal instead of "pop" you have made a terrible buisiness decision and by choosing to follow the career path of gigging musician in an age of downloading and youtube you're only digging yourself a deeper hole. Bands like that should stop being pussies afraid of being called sellouts and stop trying to distance themselves in interviews from people in the same exact industry as them while trying to claim they create purely for the art, they don't and they're assholes and liars for pretending to.
No one but pop artists should make money.

Got it. Thanks. Great point.
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Unread 04-27-2012, 05:01 PM   #17
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No one but pop artists should make money.

Got it. Thanks. Great point.
Thats not the point hes making. He is pointing out that these bands are pretending to be in it purely for the art but they are trying to be successful just as every other artist out there is. I dont see him insinuating that making money is wrong, simply that lying about wanting it is

I actually dont disagree. Its hard to justify complaining about record sales/piracy when they turn around and pull that nonsense. Personally i think complaining in general makes you look like a little bitch. Its not going to attract sales.

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Unread 04-27-2012, 05:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necris View Post
To address the title of the article directly I really don't care if the bands I listen to disband, they don't mean that much to me as callous as that may seem.
I pay for the music I listen to willingly and will continue to do so and this girl can .... right off for being stupid enough to make an article with such a ridiculous headline. If someone in a band literally died their fans would care whether or not they paid to hear the music they were listening to as would many of the bands in their local scene.

"The metal scene will lose a lot of innovative, exciting and diverse bands and many fans will never get to see their fave bands live. What a boring, corporate, streamlined future to look forward to."
1
. No . It will only lose those bands who "innovated" because they felt there was money to be made doing it, there are plenty of innovative bands who have existed for years and never made a cent.
2. You don't get to see your favorite band live? Big ....ing deal.
Consider for a second that music, to some, is absolutely everything. Its why they wake up, eat, and breathe. Every moment of existence is fueled on some level by the excitement of the next great album, the next great show. Now when that band never makes music again, there is a profound sadness, especially if it was short-lived and too soon.

Now imagine for a second, that to some, seeing there favorite band live is akin to getting the ultimate satisfaction out of life, a euphoric and unique experience that for just a few hours, allows them complete peace, unobtainable by any other means. Now imagine, if there are more of these people than you expect.


Also, I'd like to add that buying music isn't all that expensive. I bought Nightwish's "Imaginaerum", Cannibal Corpse's "Torture" and The Safety Fire's "Grind The Ocean", all for about $40.

I have payed rent, power, water, food, insurance, car payments, internet, and phone on $9.00hr and 32 hours a week, and still had money to spare to buy music. When most new CD's can be bought online, or even in stores for as little $10-$15 (for the majority) or a digital download for even less, stop being so goddamned lazy and show some appreciation, its not that much money. If your that poor, then get rid of your ....ing internet cause your wasting money on it.
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Unread 04-27-2012, 05:04 PM   #19
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Well, if a million threads whining about piracy had no effect at all on it, I'm sure thread #1,000,001 will be a real game changer.

I'd love to know the true stats on how many people there are that whine about music piracy because they play music... but have no problem stealing Photoshop or any other programs on their computer. Then combine that with the pirates that lie about it... since the ones that whine the most are usually hypocrites that can't be taken seriously.

I wonder where was all the outrage from artists about "stealing" was back when kids were stealing physical CDs from stores instead (which is much worse than piracy)? It couldn't possibly be that none of them have a moral objection to stealing as long as they still profit from it, could it? Naaaaaaaa


Quote:
Originally Posted by vbshredder View Post
Let me also add that the "Same as tape trading" argument is invalid, in that it requires friends to tape trade, who are always going to share things. Stealing from the internet is not the same.
Bullshit. If the problem with piracy is that it takes money from the artist, the artist isn't going to mind being broke less just because you used the "But... but... but... I stole it through a friend... that's different!" line of crap.


Quote:
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I had a conversation with a guy about this one day and another guy overheard it and asked me if i buy all my music and i said "yes of course" (which isnt true). He could not believe that i bought all the music i owned as he knows i have over 50gb of music.
So, you lie AND steal? What is this, a competition?? Challenge accepted... I will lie, steal AND exceed the speed limit by 5 mph... just to show that I am the bigger outlaw.
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Unread 04-27-2012, 05:11 PM   #20
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So, you lie AND steal? What is this, a competition?? Challenge accepted... I will lie, steal AND exceed the speed limit by 5 mph... just to show that I am the bigger outlaw.
The point of the story is that by setting a positive example he chose to buy some music. Yes i told a white lie to get him to do so. You have effectively missed the point.

And that being said this is the kind of miscommunication that takes place on this topic which i mentioned before. People feel so strongly about piracy on either side that they go in blindly throwing fists.

The bottom line of piracy is it only affects sales if the person intends to buy the music otherwise. If the person was not able to download an album illegally would they instead go to the store and buy it?

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Unread 04-27-2012, 05:28 PM   #21
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Consider for a second that music, to some, is absolutely everything. Its why they wake up, eat, and breathe. Every moment of existence is fueled on some level by the excitement of the next great album, the next great show. Now when that band never makes music again, there is a profound sadness, especially if it was short-lived and too soon.

Now imagine for a second, that to some, seeing there favorite band live is akin to getting the ultimate satisfaction out of life, a euphoric and unique experience that for just a few hours, allows them complete peace, unobtainable by any other means. Now imagine, if there are more of these people than you expect.
I hope I didn't give the impression that music isn't a huge part of my life.
In regards to the first part part I am one of those people, my headphones rarely leave my head unless I'm playing guitar or have to take them off to perform some task (for example: my old job didn't allow anyone to listen to music during work hours) and I'm rarely not thinking about music in some way shape or form, but I've never felt particularly crushed when a band I enjoy finally breaks up. I certainly feel a bit of disappointment due to it but I try to keep up with where the members go to hear what they do in other projects if they start anything.
As for the second part, that is more the experience I have listening to music alone, I've met maybe one or two people in my life who feel that way about live music, one of whom was a massive fan of Type O Negative and Peter Steele but had never seen them live, he seemed to pretty easily shrug off the fact that he would never get to see them live after Peter Steele passed away.

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Unread 04-27-2012, 05:36 PM   #22
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i pirate and if i didnt i would have very very little music to listen to, just cause i dont buy the album doesnt mean i dont feel the need to support the band i got to every show that i can and buy $50+ worth of merch almost every time. i dont see the point in having a physical copy when all its going to do is get put on to my computer and sit in my closet until i either lose it or throw it away. atleast when i download something i tell everyone how awesome it is and that they should either buy it if they have the money or download it and spread it to more people.

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Unread 04-27-2012, 05:38 PM   #23
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The point of the story is that by setting a positive example he chose to buy some music. Yes i told a white lie to get him to do so. You have effectively missed the point.
While I was actually sarcastically playing around in that reply... are you really trying to put a positive spin on being a lying hypocrite?
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