The LGBT thread

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

I will admit, that did happen to me. I was bi at first, but then I just slowly lost interest in girls. I don't see myself dating anything with a vagina in the future.

EDIT: Gotta love how my 2500th post is about vaginas.

[Waelstrum]

Best. Milestone. Ever.

[ghstofperdition]

Not for a gay guy. A gay guy posting about vagina is like a straight guy posting about dick.

My sympathies Jazz.

[Waelstrum]

EDIT: That came out wrong the first time. Straight guys post about dick all the time, but I guess I'm just being a tad immature.

[ghstofperdition]

No worries. I've been asked numerous times how a guy could ever possibly want to be with another dude. I ask those people if they get a slight repulsion at the though of them doing anything with a guy, and they say yes. I explain to them that that's the exact feeling a gay guy feels when confronted with the idea of heterosexual sex. It's so weird and uncomfortable to them.

So it basically came down to while they support other's rights to have straight relationships, it was definitely not for them.

[Guitarman700]

Originally Posted by Jakke

I have heard that there is some prejudice among gay people towards people who are bi, is that anything you've encountered?

I've encountered this. It was shocking at first, now I just find it sad. Seems bigotry knows no bounds.

[Stealthdjentstic]

I just think the gays are not to be trusted cuz I saw on jerry springer its all fake

[S-O]

I just can't wrap my head around how anyone could be so bothered by love?

One thing that I find prevalent is hyper-sexuality, but that isn't limited to the LGBT crowd, kind of a whole world crowd.

Though, I can't cast stones

[ghstofperdition]

Originally Posted by Guitarman700

I've encountered this. It was shocking at first, now I just find it sad. Seems bigotry knows no bounds.

Exactly. I've learned that just because you're gay/lesbian/bi/trans/pan/asexual/poly/etc., your prejudices and hatred doesn't just stop. In fact for a select number of people, it may even intensify in what I call the "willem dafoe syndrome". I got the term from watching the first boondock saints movie, where Willem Dafoe's character is gay, but will throw out homophobic epithets at other gay people.

[Necris]

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

Well I'm not saying that the gay community is giving me more crap because that's not true at all. The rest of society is still far in the lead there. But I have seen a lot of horrifyingly grotesque transphobic comments from those that identify as gay.

On the other side of the coin the same hate comes from the Transgendered community towards gays and bisexuals. I can't tell you how many transgendered women I have spoken to who are very violent in their speech against homosexuals. Bisexuals are pretty much unanimously detested unless they also happen to be trans themselves in which case they're usually accepted.

[ghstofperdition]

Very true. I've seen TS women go apeshit on transgenderists such as myself. For those that don't know the difference, a transgenderist is someone that doesn't have to go through a complete transition. In other words, they decide to keep their junk, but will get boobs and other work done. Some transsexuals get very militant about it because of the fact that their idea of gender is as binary as any fundamentalist out there. I've had to leave a couple trans forums because of the shit I've gotten over this. My gender identity is something of an oxymoron due to the fact that I'm something of a "non op transsexual". If I had the $1912830749814203 it costs to get my shit chopped off, I'd probably do it, but I figure I'm going to be in the $30,000 annual bracket, even after my degree, so I have to be cool with keeping my monsters for now.

Tell that to some of the more out there transwomen and they go nuts. I've seen some hate against gay and bi people as well. More so against the latter, since they do similar to some of the gay hate I've seen like how bi people need to "pick a side" and be done with it. It's ridiculous. No wonder people don't take the LGBT community seriously; we fight so much among ourselves that everybody is turned off by our own self hatred....

Edit: Awesome, I spend most of my waking moments helping LGBTs and now I'm a bigot. Thanks...

[Stealthdjentstic]

I lol'd

Wacky negs ftw

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Dem just hatuhs.

[Jakke]

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

And thanks Jakke! Don't worry about the dude comments, since I call everyone dude anyways. It's a SoCal thing...

Okay du... Dudette? ()

BTW, Leif and I are ready for plunder whenever you are.

[Waelstrum]

Reminds me of when they called that black Swede racist against Africans.

[Bigfan]

Originally Posted by Jakke

Okay du... Dudette? ()

BTW, Leif and I are ready for plunder whenever you are.

[Hemi-Powered Drone]

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

And thanks Jakke! Don't worry about the dude comments, since I call everyone dude anyways. It's a SoCal thing...

I thought dude was universal everywhere(sounds a bit redundant, non?). Or it refers to a guy, it's kind of contextual. Maybe it's a sub-tropical thing.

[ghstofperdition]

Not sure, but it has pretty much evolved into being a staple of SoCal lingo. I call everyone dude regardless of gender.

[Bigfan]

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

Not sure, but it has pretty much evolved into being a staple of SoCal lingo. I call everyone dude regardless of gender.

That makes sense, bro.

[ghstofperdition]

icwatudidthere.... :p





I say when in doubt and you really wanna know, just politely ask.


Now that I'm a bit more sober-minded, I can better tackle clarifying what it was that I was trying to say last night:
The LGBT community these last few years have had a rather dark history of infighting. Gays and bis are at each other's throats over perceived bigotry, some members of the trans community have been fighting with each other over who is more of an actual woman, bisexuals fighting with each other for the same reasons that gays and bis have been going at it, and the gay community fighting with the trans community over perceived bigotry.

Now when I say this, do I mean the ENTIRE population of those communities? Of course not, and I wouldn't even put that number at a quarter of the population of those communities. But there ARE enough that it is a growing concern for people such as myself that if the trend continues, it COULD get way out of hand and will undermine our main cause. As the saying goes, a house divided cannot stand.

Lemme try to explain each of these conflicts that I've seen as best as I can see them. There are those in the gay community that feel that bisexuals are just living in denial and are greedy and selfish and can't commit to a relationship because they have to have to sleep with both genders simultaneously. In other words, they think that bis are really gay or straight and are lying to themselves and others, and that they are whores. NOT ALL OF THE GAY COMMUNITY THINKS THIS, and again, I believe that number that do are a small fraction overall. As such, bisexuals are claiming bigotry, and rightly so, but then some of them think that all gays think like this and refuse to date them, thus perpetuating the myth that bis can't be committed in same sex relationships. It's all ridiculous assumptions on everybody's part, and I really have met some gay men and women that have said/done some of this. But the vast majority of the gay men and women I know are super supportive of the bisexual community and do not have these prejudices...

In the trans community there are some seriously messed up people (thankfully a tiny minority) that think that if you don't want to fully, but partially transition from one gender to the other, then you're just wasting everyone's time and are a plague to all other transsexuals out there and are mucking it up for everybody else. I've even been attacked on a forum by one of these people, having been told that if I want to keep my junk, I should just go work as a shemale porn star. (which is pretty much THE worst thing you can say to a transwoman) I've also seen infighting where crossdressers get attacked by some transsexuals because for the TS girls, transition is a life or death thing and see CDing as a mockery of it. Again, a very small amount of TS are like this, but it's enough that I have to scratch my head because it feels like a projection of insecurity. NOT ALL TRANSSEXUALS ARE LIKE THIS, and again that number is few and far in between. Often enough, there are forums that really do save lives and are out there to help people. IIRC the suicide rate for transgenders are at over 70% and growing. Being attacked by other transpersons is irresponsible and will make that suicide rate jump. The great forums out there actually help call out the crappy people and expose them for what they are. So yes, the majority of transpersons do a lot to help each other out and lives are saved this way. I'm super grateful to have forums and friends that can help me through this transition thing, and some of them are transgenders themselves.

Some bisexuals are at each other's throats for the same reason as some gays are at bisexuals throats; inability to commit to a same sex partner. I've had to call some people out on this on some of the fb groups that I've been on because it is REALLY stupid. NOT ALL BISEXUALS ARE LIKE THIS and the number of those that do is small.

Some gays have a real problem with transgenders. I've been under the gun on a pro-gay fb page having been called mentally unstable because I may/may not want to have my junk chopped off, and a lot worse. The number of people that did this were few, but enough that I really was dismayed. Having checked this out further, I was not alone in seeing some transphobia from some people in the gay community. I see this as ridiculous since the gay rights movement more or less started at the Stonewall Riots in I believe it was 1975 and guess who was a part of that? That's right, transpeople.
NOT ALL GAYS AND LESBIANS HAVE A PROBLEM WITH TRANSPEOPLE, and despite my initial findings this number is pretty small. In fact one of the people that have been helping me with my transition the most in the form of moral support is in fact a lesbian.

So as you can see there are some problems, but education and a willingness to change can fix this. I call out people that have those attitudes all the time and try to show them the folly of those attitudes. Guess what? I do the same thing for straights and cisgenders (meaning that your genetic sex and gender match). It's not me trying to go and bully the lgbt community, but rather referee it a bit because people can get a little crazy sometimes. Bigotry doesn't end just because you came out of the closet, and for some people that have, that bigotry only intensifies. This is a ridiculous thing to have happen since it really does hurt and set back what progress we've been trying to make in showing people that we're not crazy or unstable.

Hope this clears my point up a bit, and sheds light onto the inner workings of things for some of the straight/cisgender allies that we have here. Remember that on the whole, we are still very united and supportive of each other. We just have a few bad apples *cough* dan savage *cough* that need to be ignored.

[Waelstrum]

Wait, what's Dan Savage done? It'd be a shame if he's not the guy I thought he was, 'cause I liked that 'it gets better' campaign.

[Guitarman700]

Originally Posted by Waelstrum

Wait, what's Dan Savage done? It'd be a shame if he's not the guy I thought he was, 'cause I liked that 'it gets better' campaign.

He's said enough really terrible things about transpeople and Bi's that it negates any good It Gets Better has ever done. He only cares about gays and lesbians.
As someone I know put it, he's the white Steve Harvey.

[Waelstrum]

Oh...

[ilyti]

@ghstofperdition: It almost seems like because of insecurity within their own respective community, certain individuals lash out at the others. Not unlike metal fans arguing amongst themselves over the validity of metal subgenres. Every single person arguing in their own favour believes that his or her view is the only correct one, and that's nonsense. It's a human tendency that rises from insecurity (which is something a lot more common among LGBT youth, if I'm correct, which often leads to higher rates of suicide). It seems like the best thing to do is stay out of those arguments as much as possible. Live your life as an individual. Be as happy as you can, without seeking validation from members of the group.

You mention that your intention is to "referee" the situation wherever possible, and that's commendable. But I'd be absolutely careful not to appear as though you are fighting or arguing just for the sake of it. Soccer players sometimes feel that the referee is biased against them, and react as if he is their enemy. If you view it as you're the trans referee, between the gay team and the bisexual team (just an example), both could view you as biased in some way and ignore your view on the matter. So the idea that "education and a willingness to change" isn't necessarily the answer, because why should they change their view because you said so?

There are, and always will be, stubborn, selfish assholes in every social group who drag everyone else down. It seems to me that the LGBT community started to fragment as soon as they were commonly known as the LGBT community. There are at least 4 communities under that umbrella! And the more widely accepted alternate sexuality becomes, the more people will be involved in the arguments. The initial "let's all pull together towards a common goal" thing is fading away because too many people have too many different interests, ultimately.

That is a shocking statistic for transgendered suicides. 70% and growing?? Support groups could be the answer, but maybe only if that support group is exclusively transpeople. What I see happening over the next few decades is the different parts of the LGBT community will continue to separate from each other, and then within their own groups, have to pull together. And hopefully not declare war on the others.

[ghstofperdition]

Yeah it was bad enough that a group of transwomen actually "glitterbombed" him at one of his speeches. Basically they took a jug of glitter and dumped it on him at random. Now I don't agree with that tactic, but I can see where they'd be mad enough to do it.