What do you believe? And why or how did you come to believe that? no trolling please

[AnarchyDivine88]

Originally Posted by Ninetyfour

The best example that springs to mind which demonstrates your point:



This is an extremely good documentary for those who haven't seen it. Maher is a fair bit disrespectful in it, but it's decent nonetheless.

I love that movie! So funny yet also very insightful.

Originally Posted by flint757

I haven't seen too many people post on here in general from those beliefs, but yeah that would be awesome.

Yeah it seems we're mostly a forum of atheists with a few satanists and chistians sprinkled in lol.

[vampiregenocide]

I'm not religious, however I am somewhat spiritual. I think the closest thing that describes what I am is an agnostic deist. I believe in the possibility of a deity (not the God we necessarily recognise, but some kind of underlying higher power/force throughout the universe), but that by nature that deity would be infinitely complex and we would not be able to comprehend it. To think that any God or comparable force could be described by man in any book does not make sense to me. Therefore, I do not concern myself with it. I trust in science, and things I know and see. If there is a God so be it, but I'm not going to spend my life contemplating a question way beyond any human's understanding. We should just figure out the universe step by step, try to be good, responsible people and go on what we know.

[Necris]

Originally Posted by KingAenarion

THIS is a dumb question, with a logical fallacy for a premise.
My answer to this is that, when dealing with a God who is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent... he can create a rock so large he can't lift it... then lift it anyway.

Omnipotent is all powerful... there isn't ANY limitation to the power. I don't think we can understand how that would be... but when you premise the question as to whether an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God who supposedly created the Universe and all the laws of physics and maths and quantum mechanics that govern it can do this... you would have to infer that he is beyond that kind of question before you even get to the fallacy of the question itself.

That's sort of the beauty of the question, if he can create a rock so large that he can't lift it and then proceeds to lift it anyway because well... "god" then it stands to reason that the answer is "No, God cannot create an object so big that he cannot lift it." Which calls in to question his omnipotence just as an answer of "Yes" would.

Originally Posted by KingAenarion

1) Sin... we are all separated from God by Sin... it is not punishment, just separation. The only way we can be with God is if we are sinless. The only way for us to BE sinless was for Jesus to take the punishment for our sin for us. I'm sorry I can't give you a more satisfying answer than that. It's late, I'm tired and It is something I still struggle with myself. (but it doesn't reduce my belief at all)

John 1:29, "The next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, 'Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!'"
1 Tim 4:10, "For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers."
1 John 2:2, "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."

Depending on how you view your own statement and those quotes it could be argued that the entire world is already sinless.

Amusingly 1 Tim 4:10 presents a logical fallacy, "especially of believers" seems to imply that believers in Christ are somehow more sinless than non-believers which is it's own logical fallacy. In your own words Sin is the one thing that separates man from god, if the death of Christ cleansed the world of sin ("saved mankind") then being a believer or not makes no difference, you can't have less than nothing so a believer wouldn't be any more "saved" than a non-believer.

[Konfyouzd]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

I'm not religious, however I am somewhat spiritual. I think the closest thing that describes what I am is an agnostic deist. I believe in the possibility of a deity (not the God we necessarily recognise, but some kind of underlying higher power/force throughout the universe), but that by nature that deity would be infinitely complex and we would not be able to comprehend it. To think that any God or comparable force could be described by man in any book does not make sense to me. Therefore, I do not concern myself with it. I trust in science, and things I know and see. If there is a God so be it, but I'm not going to spend my life contemplating a question way beyond any human's understanding. We should just figure out the universe step by step, try to be good, responsible people and go on what we know.

Liked and repped.

[caskettheclown]

It all depends on who I am talking to.

Most people I just tell them I am nondenominational Buddhist.
I'm actually Buddhist and I practice Shamanism.


Buddhism mainly though, its basically the way I live my life.
I practice Shamanism cause of the things i've seen and experienced and would like to continue to experience those things.
(No I don't use drugs of any sort)

[AnarchyDivine88]

Originally Posted by caskettheclown

It all depends on who I am talking to.

Most people I just tell them I am nondenominational Buddhist.
I'm actually Buddhist and I practice Shamanism.


Buddhism mainly though, its basically the way I live my life.
I practice Shamanism cause of the things i've seen and experienced and would like to continue to experience those things.
(No I don't use drugs of any sort)

Cool! Finally something besides christian god vs no god lol. Care to share more? I'd especially like to hear more about your shamanistic practices.

[Diggy]

I;m not rally sure..

sometimes...

I believe my perception is my reality.

I believe that thought is alot more powerful than most understand it to be. I believe that things can be "thought" into existence.. if not in real-time/here sense of things, then somewhere and at some time.

I believe that because I come from the same stuff that everything comes from, I will always be connected to everything somehow.. and possibly have influence on all.. and vice versa.

I believe it is quite possible that I am in control of every aspect of the reality I experience.

I believe.. just as science has discovered that some particles flicker in and out of perceivable existence.. so does everything.

Because of this (and much more that quantum theory/physics has to offer) everything we can perceive to exist, will exist, or has existed.. does exist;

1) all at the same time.. in some manner of reality or consciousness that is yet to be discovered.
2) all in the same space.. in some manner of reality or consciousness that is yet to be discovered.

I believe that just because we cannot see, feel, hear, taste, touch, sense things doesnt mean they arent there. Anything we can think of exists.

Having said all of that, I believe there could very well be a single "god".. but to understand anything about it, we would have to be something that we are not and most likely (as the humans we are) could never be... all knowing, all seeing, all sensing...

That is, unless we truly are making our reality.. and for every consciousness that exists, there also exists a corresponding reality. Then we all already have the power to be gods. It's funny too.. "reality" feels "real".. but only because of the chemicals in our "reality" that govern how we perceive/sense things.. and these chemicals could be some type of BS conjured by our thoughts. So then, what came first.. the thought, or the thinker.

Ok, so.. I'm back to not having a real clue of what to believe.. same ol' scenario.

[flint757]

Originally Posted by caskettheclown

It all depends on who I am talking to.

Most people I just tell them I am nondenominational Buddhist.
I'm actually Buddhist and I practice Shamanism.


Buddhism mainly though, its basically the way I live my life.
I practice Shamanism cause of the things i've seen and experienced and would like to continue to experience those things.
(No I don't use drugs of any sort)

Originally Posted by AnarchyDivine88

Cool! Finally something besides christian god vs no god lol. Care to share more? I'd especially like to hear more about your shamanistic practices.

Ya I'd be curious to hear more as well.

[Necris]

Originally Posted by JPhoenix19

I like this post. Very much.

I myself am a Christian, but for purposes of this thread I'd rather focus on some of my philosophy instead of the definitions of my religion.

Philosophically, I tend to reside somewhere on the opposite side of the spectrum as Laveyan Satanism (as I understand it). I see living only for self-fulfillment as a fallacy. God or no god, I believe that there is a greater sense of purpose for man, and that it is larger than living for ourselves.

Self-fulfillment is not the same thing as hedonism and you seem to have the two confused. One can strive for self-fulfillment and through achieving their goals serve others thus serving a greater purpose.

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Originally Posted by Necris

Self-fulfillment is not the same thing as hedonism and you seem to have the two confused. One can strive for self-fulfillment and through achieving their goals serve others thus serving a greater purpose.

This. Self fulfillment is about being all you can be and striving to enhance your life and yourself..not just doing whatever feels good, which actually tends to have negative effects down the road

[flint757]

Ya it would have been better stated if he hadn't made an unnecessary comparison. I try and tell my grandad that. He gives away things when he doesn't have it to give. My logic is make more money that way down the road I can not only give more if I wanted too, but not give away the families food for the evening doing it. Bill gates gives more than anyone on this planet and he doesn't have to suffer doing it. Not related, but a good point I think.

[Explorer]

Regarding what Scientology believes (although one doesn't learn this until one has invested enough money in classes and auditing):

The evil alien ruler Xenu killed millions of aliens (Thetans) from around the universe by kidnapping them, bringing them to earth in golden DC-8 “space-planes”, stacking them around volcanoes and blowing them up by dropping “h-bombs” into the volcanoes. The souls of these aliens (called "Body Thetans" by Scientology) were then captured, brainwashed (including being shown films of made-up religions like Hinduism and Christianity) and then released; they then attached themselves to our ancestors (and according to Scientology’s belief in Thetan immortality, they also attached to us during “past lives”) and cause many of our mental & physical ills to this day. Auditing is said to “clear” us of these Body Thetans as well as the “mental implants” they supposedly impose on our minds.

----

I believe a case was made for Biblical inerrancy. At most, one can only claim the Bible was written to the best of the authors' understandings. Here's why:

Jesus states in Scripture that the mustard seed is the smallest seed, not that it is the smallest seed known.

The mustard seed is not the smallest seed.

If Jesus had said "the smallest seed known," and it made it into Scripture incorrectly, then Scripture is an inaccurate record.

If Jesus did say it was the smallest seed, because his listeners wouldn't have known of other, even smaller seeds, then Scripture was limited to the understanding of the listeners and writers, and would be factually incorrect when they didn't have better understanding.

Lastly, if it were literally correct, Jesus would have been born twice, once under the rule of Herod the Great, and then again under the rule of Herod's son, Herod Antipas, Tetrarch, quite a few years later. This would be a novel definition of "born again," but cannot be literally true.

[caskettheclown]

Originally Posted by flint757

Ya I'd be curious to hear more as well.

Well I was Buddhist for two years before I began practicing the Shaman thing. I learned it from my ex's aunt. She is a Shaman Healer, a damn good one at that, she had been practicing since she was a child. She has taken migraines away from me before, its crazy. She found out I was Buddhist and meditated daily for a couple years, she found out that I had opened my third eye and thats why she taught me.

I'm a Shaman Healer. I heal people physically and emotionally. I was already one of those people to "Fix" peoples problems with their lives for some reason. People would just ask me instead of someone else. Drove me nuts for a while but now its not so bad.

I'm a Shaman Healer because that is what comes naturally to me though i'm able to do other little things as well.

Basically what I do with physical pain is I hold the persons hand in one hand and place my other hand on the place of pain and meditate/chant/focus on the pain , its kind of doing it all at once in a way. Depending on how strong my connection is with the person and the amount of pain and how focused I am, I can take extremely little pain from them or ALL of it. I've made my godmother's horrible toothaches go away many times. When I do it, I feel my hands start tingling and then my arms and they feel the place of pain tingling and slowly it feels like its transferring into me. Usually I only experience a little bit to none of the pain. Sometimes though I can keep all the pain I take from someone, though i've learned to get rid of it very quickly (Or give it to someone else though I usually don't do that).
If all the variables are right or I meditate/chant/focus on the pain long enough I will start trembling very badly and it gets hard to breath. I have blacked out because of it before, though only once and that was because I was taking my mom's back pain away and I pushed myself way to long because I wanted her to finally be pain free even if only for a while.
There are many things that help me take the pain away as well. Before I go to something else, i'll end with this. If the connection with the person is strong enough I can sense when they are feeling great emotion of some kind, i'm still figuring out what is what at the moment though.

Onto a different subject a little bit.
My power or spirit animal is the white owl. Its more true/accurate to me than the zodiac signs. To keep it short, I won't go into too much detail about that.

After a while I learned to astral project, I haven't mastered it yet by any means and its still very difficult to do but I have done it multiple times. Whenever I do it, I almost instantly seeing the world through the eyes of an animal. Take a guess which one? If you guessed, the white owl then you would be correct. Basically what happens is I see through the eyes of the owl and can usually control what it does to an extent. For instance, my stepsister has nightmares a lot, so one night when I was in the body of the owl, it flew to her window while she was asleep and I could hear her mumbling in her sleep having a nightmare. So I/the owl pecked on her window and she woke up and saw the owl. I then flew away.
The next day she was telling me about how this owl woke her up from this nightmare. Thats when I knew that I wasn't just dreaming.


I'll end with the bad things about the practice.
Main thing is, people who think i'm some sort of nutjob because of it and treat me as such. Thats why I don't talk about it much but I figured this is SS.org and I can open up about it to those who are willing to listen.
Another bad thing about it is when I transfer someones pain into me and it gets really difficult to get rid of.
Also I get REALLY hungry when I finish healing someone.

I could go on but I feel like i'm rambling.

[JPhoenix19]

Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis

This. Self fulfillment is about being all you can be and striving to enhance your life and yourself..not just doing whatever feels good, which actually tends to have negative effects down the road

Indeed, self-fulfillment is not the same as hedonism- which is not the same as self-indulgence (the difference being the degree of extremity). That's the term I should have used in place of "self-fulfillment", my mistake. What you seem to be describing, however, is humanism- which I did not find to be among the facets of satanism at the time that I researched it. I'm not expert on satansim- theistic or athestic.

The gist I got when I researched atheistic Satanism was that it contrasts from Christianity by embracing the carnal self and 'human nature', as well as an 'eye-for-an-eye' world-view- all of which are opposite of what a Christian's world-view should look like. Is that an accurate assessment, albeit possibly limited in scope because of my lack of exposure to it?

In any case, I don't have a problem with the philosophy of humanism and the concept of self-fulfillment. It's a generally self-centered world-view that I philosophically reject- one that concerns itself with mostly itself and care little (or not) for the world and the people around it as long as it is not directly affected.

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Originally Posted by JPhoenix19

Indeed, self-fulfillment is not the same as hedonism- which is not the same as self-indulgence (the difference being the degree of extremity). That's the term I should have used in place of "self-fulfillment", my mistake. What you seem to be describing, however, is humanism- which I did not find to be among the facets of satanism at the time that I researched it. I'm not expert on satansim- theistic or athestic.

The gist I got when I researched atheistic Satanism was that it contrasts from Christianity by embracing the carnal self and 'human nature', as well as an 'eye-for-an-eye' world-view- all of which are opposite of what a Christian's world-view should look like. Is that an accurate assessment, albeit possibly limited in scope because of my lack of exposure to it?

In any case, I don't have a problem with the philosophy of humanism and the concept of self-fulfillment. It's a generally self-centered world-view that I philosophically reject- one that concerns itself with mostly itself and care little (or not) for the world and the people around it as long as it is not directly affected.

That's pretty much it..although I always feel the need to clarify. Eye-for-an-eye is a general term but Satanists do believe in revenge. This doesn't mean physical violence or doing something that would in turn backfire (The first Satanic Sin is stupidity..and any action that threatens total enjoyment of your life due to being scorned is definitely stupid)..but there are many ways to retaliate be it through ritual (curse throwing essentially) or even succeeding despite your enemy trying to hinder your progress. Sometimes the best revenge is thriving despite the opposition.

[skeels]

Necris hit the nail in the head. God is a paradox.
How can we as finite beings understand the infinite.

[AnarchyDivine88]

Originally Posted by Explorer

Regarding what Scientology believes (although one doesn't learn this until one has invested enough money in classes and auditing):

The evil alien ruler Xenu killed millions of aliens (Thetans) from around the universe by kidnapping them, bringing them to earth in golden DC-8 “space-planes”, stacking them around volcanoes and blowing them up by dropping “h-bombs” into the volcanoes. The souls of these aliens (called "Body Thetans" by Scientology) were then captured, brainwashed (including being shown films of made-up religions like Hinduism and Christianity) and then released; they then attached themselves to our ancestors (and according to Scientology’s belief in Thetan immortality, they also attached to us during “past lives”) and cause many of our mental & physical ills to this day. Auditing is said to “clear” us of these Body Thetans as well as the “mental implants” they supposedly impose on our minds.

----

I believe a case was made for Biblical inerrancy. At most, one can only claim the Bible was written to the best of the authors' understandings. Here's why:

Jesus states in Scripture that the mustard seed is the smallest seed, not that it is the smallest seed known.

The mustard seed is not the smallest seed.

If Jesus had said "the smallest seed known," and it made it into Scripture incorrectly, then Scripture is an inaccurate record.

If Jesus did say it was the smallest seed, because his listeners wouldn't have known of other, even smaller seeds, then Scripture was limited to the understanding of the listeners and writers, and would be factually incorrect when they didn't have better understanding.

Lastly, if it were literally correct, Jesus would have been born twice, once under the rule of Herod the Great, and then again under the rule of Herod's son, Herod Antipas, Tetrarch, quite a few years later. This would be a novel definition of "born again," but cannot be literally true.

Yeah, I know that much about scientology, but supposedly there are some secrets that only higher level scientologists are allowed to know. Some kind of well kept secrets that they don't let anyone talk about. That's what I've heard anyway.

I don't think Jesus said it was the smallest seed. I think all that was written was "if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." Right? Maybe I'm wrong about that, but that's the only thing regarding the mustard seed that I remember. I haven't had to look at a bible for a long time though.

[Konfyouzd]

Originally Posted by AnarchyDivine88

Yeah, I know that much about scientology, but supposedly there are some secrets that only higher level scientologists are allowed to know.

Yea... That's how they get you to keep paying.

[Necris]

Originally Posted by AnarchyDivine88

Yeah, I know that much about scientology, but supposedly there are some secrets that only higher level scientologists are allowed to know. Some kind of well kept secrets that they don't let anyone talk about. That's what I've heard anyway.

I don't think Jesus said it was the smallest seed. I think all that was written was "if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." Right? Maybe I'm wrong about that, but that's the only thing regarding the mustard seed that I remember. I haven't had to look at a bible for a long time though.

Maybe it's how to get a cut of the cashflow?


“The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field; and this is smaller than all other seeds; but when it is full grown, it is larger than the garden plants, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches."

Is the exact quote Explorer is referring to.

"And He said to them, “Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you shall say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it shall move; and nothing shall be impossible to you."

Is the one you're thinking of.

In regards to the first quote he very well could have been talking about the smallest seed in that region, but it could be interpreted from multiple angles since he didn't specify whether he was speaking in terms of the local plant life or globally. I believe the context of that specific quote is that of a harvest, the line before it seems to make that clear. He also said the mustard seed grows into a tree, in modern botany it would not be considered a tree, but back then it's understandable people might consider it one.

[Sicarius]

I've been an Atheist from a very young age, my mother's side of the family is very Baptist.

I wasn't forced to go to church, I wasn't baptized (afaik), but it didn't make sense to me, as a kid going into 6th or 7th grade. I didn't even know what an Atheist was. I remember telling my mom one day, "I don't think there's actually a God." and that didn't really make her happy.

Anyway; it's who I am, and while as I've gotten older I've become something akin to a Nihilist, I've never understood why religion is continuing. I believe in the abilities a human being possesses, the things we've managed to accomplish as a species I see as human feats, and nothing to do with divine intervention or anything divine.

Not to say I trust or believe in human kind, that's absurd, we're completely destructive, and terrible for this planet, and I welcome the day the Earth wipes us off as it did other species millennia ago. But, what we've done is our own, not something to do with a God or anything else giving talents to people.

On the other hand, I know what a religion can do for people, I understand what it does for them. I know there are churches, synagogues and mosques that really help their communities, and their followers with whatever they may need. But at the same time, how can a church or any religion tell a person they can't receive a blood transfusion, or receive vaccinations, or see a doctor, because a higher power told them to write it down?

The Divine Plan and Free Will are incompatible. You can't say, "I have everything planned out for you, but I'll give you free will, so long as you'll be my servant for the entirety of your life, and I will let you be with me in Heaven, unless you make a wrong choice that I've still seen you do, and have put it in your divine plan, and then I'll send you to hell, because I'm infallible, and no matter what you do it's still what I want you to do."

That may be an immature way to look at it, but when you look around at some of the religious sects out there, there's really no other way to think about it..

[Konfyouzd]

Originally Posted by DrakkarTyrannis

Sometimes the best revenge is thriving despite the opposition.

[PyramidSmasher]

If you try to make a ducks legs long, you will only cause it pain, but if you make a Crane's legs short, you will only cause it grief. Uniformity is not nature, so why do all laws, morals, institutions, and governments enforce uniformity, which is not natural? Nature gave the horse its four legs, while man gave the horse its saddle. I'm not arguing that man has negative intent, just that the good intention of wanting to share what works for you with others is not necessarily a wholly admirable approach.

Chuang Tzu says that most men do not realize their perspective is based on a finite point of view, and begin to think of others as wrong. What is truly wrong is the veneration we as a race have put on finite perspectives. I look to the formless nameless force beyond form and features as the basis for my actions, as it does not change, and with inaction comes a breed of content that does not allow me to over extend myself in situations where my way may not be the best way for all.

[Konfyouzd]

"Chaos is the way of nature. Order is the dream of man."

[JPhoenix19]

Originally Posted by Explorer

I believe a case was made for Biblical inerrancy. At most, one can only claim the Bible was written to the best of the authors' understandings. Here's why:

Jesus states in Scripture that the mustard seed is the smallest seed, not that it is the smallest seed known.

The mustard seed is not the smallest seed.

If Jesus had said "the smallest seed known," and it made it into Scripture incorrectly, then Scripture is an inaccurate record.

If Jesus did say it was the smallest seed, because his listeners wouldn't have known of other, even smaller seeds, then Scripture was limited to the understanding of the listeners and writers, and would be factually incorrect when they didn't have better understanding.

Lastly, if it were literally correct, Jesus would have been born twice, once under the rule of Herod the Great, and then again under the rule of Herod's son, Herod Antipas, Tetrarch, quite a few years later. This would be a novel definition of "born again," but cannot be literally true.

Don't you think you're drawing some stark conclusions in your logic? I mean, I think I see where your logic is coming from. If you assert that a work of literature must be 100% inerrant in order to be divinely inspired then yes your logic holds ground. If a divine work can have a margin of error- apparent or literal, then your argument does not hold ground. Obviously that's a whole different debate. I guess my point is that I do not think the Bible has to be inerrant to be divinely inspired, and thus I disagree with your assessment.

I'd like to hear you expound on your last paragraph and where in scripture you're getting Jesus being born in two different time periods. I don't think I've heard that argument before.

Originally Posted by Konfyouzd

"Chaos is the way of nature. Order is the dream of man."

As cool as this statement is, I disagree. I see the way of nature as a balance between chaos and order- an equilibrium.

[Edika]

The problem is not so much the teachings of the various religions, as they try to create moral foundations, but the exploitation of the people adhering to a religion by corrupt members of power in that religion. Some people may think that people following religions more "passionately" are stupid and uneducated which may apply in third world countries and some parts of the civilized world. From my understanding, observations and some discussions (in the western world), it boils down to fear of the unknown and self assurance. The way we are raised in the western civilization creates the ground for some kind of belief as any of you can attest just by thinking of your personal experiences. You may not follow the religion you have grown up with but do you follow other religions or have put your faith in other parts the human intellect, humanity or even animals. Some do this with the same passion and drive as religious fanatics.
It is difficult for most people to imagine that they are not special, the hardships they endure is not some divine plan to provide for an afterlife but the tolerance of forces that exploit them, sickness is something that occurs to all life forms and for some we are to blame, when we die we just die. This kind of thinking would lead to depression for a part of the population and probably rebellion for a whole lot.
What I find "funny" is people believing that people in power (political, religious, economical and a combination of the above) actually believe in god or any form of deity. They may appear so but would gladly sacrifice the freedoms, rights and dignity of the citizens they are supposed to serve for power and money. These are the deities they worship and serve.