Think about this: EVERYTHING is nature!

[MF_Kitten]

Originally Posted by silentrage

Animals don't live all ZEN-like with their feeding whenever they want, ....ing whenever they find a mate and sleeping with the alarm-clock set to off,
it's more like feeding when it's the right season and nervously checking every angle for predators predators, ....ing when he can defeat EVERY OTHER male in the vicinity and have been blessed with the right genes to attract the females, and sleeping in fear of his live in some little nook or cranny.
I wouln't say that's necessarily better off than us, but at least they have actual threats, whereas we get all sad-panda just thinking about shit.

i know that. fortunately though, we don´t really have any natural enemies

[pink freud]

Originally Posted by MF_Kitten

i know that. fortunately though, we don´t really have any natural enemies

[silentrage]

Hmm, 5 bucks says that's the HIV.

[vampiregenocide]

I think he was referring to predators. We're not actively hunted by many animals, though occassionally some idiot gets mauled my a panda. As for disease, well that is steadily becoming less of a problem as medical science improves. The things that cause death are being defeated, meaning our population is growing out of control. We're currently at 7 odd billion, expected to be more than 9 billion by 2040 and 21 billion by 2100. We're solving the issue of our own mortality but creating a new one: lack of resources. It is already being seen in third world countries where there is no population control, and STD's and starvation are rampant. Someday, that might be the same for all of us.

So one could argue, that our own desperation to solve issues separates us from nature. We want to elevate ourselves to Godhood by curing disease, starvation and ultimately death itself. Death and disease are part of nature, an everyday process. At some point, the balance will tip, and we will see that human nature, and the natural world, are two very different things. Maybe anyway, its not something you can argue. We'll never understand it.

[MF_Kitten]

Originally Posted by pink freud

yeah, but we won't be looking over our shoulder all paranoid over that, will we? we just need to take precautions. and that's already the case right now, so yeah

[silentrage]

We will reach 0 population growth, whether through war, mass starvation or disease is unknown, but we will get there, it's not really an option, and in so doing balance will be restored.

[vampiregenocide]

Originally Posted by silentrage

We will reach 0 population growth, whether through war, mass starvation or disease is unknown, but we will get there, it's not really an option, and in so doing balance will be restored.

We'll be colonising planets by then I imagine, you can't slow growth like the human population down without nearly eradicating it.

[MF_Kitten]

Originally Posted by vampiregenocide

We'll be colonising planets by then I imagine, you can't slow growth like the human population down without nearly eradicating it.

but how long will we last in a world we're not at all made for? eventually there will be total extinction no matter how you look at it.

[pink freud]

Originally Posted by MF_Kitten

but how long will we last in a world we're not at all made for? eventually there will be total extinction no matter how you look at it.

Well, yeah. Entropy, and all that.

[Ckackley]

Originally Posted by silentrage

Animals don't live all ZEN-like with their feeding whenever they want, ....ing whenever they find a mate and sleeping with the alarm-clock set to off,
it's more like feeding when it's the right season and nervously checking every angle for predators predators, ....ing when he can defeat EVERY OTHER male in the vicinity and have been blessed with the right genes to attract the females, and sleeping in fear of his live in some little nook or cranny.
I wouln't say that's necessarily better off than us, but at least they have actual threats, whereas we get all sad-panda just thinking about shit.

Better is too subjective a term. But on the other hand, what's so wrong about passing on the "right" genes ? It's totally possible that by humans not having any natural predators anymore that over time we're breeding the race to be weaker. Natural selection works. Just because we've removed ourselves from the food chain does not mean we're not still evolving. Possibly for the worse. Fast forward a few thousand years and it's highly possible that everyone will have some genetic related health issue or we'll be completely dependant on machines to survive because we've evolved so far away from using our physical bodies for anything but eating and ....ing.

[silentrage]

@pink depending on which model of cosmology is right, there could be many ways for us to go, the big crunch, the big rip, the big heat death, they're all so fun!

@Ckackley Evolution works so slowly compared to technology that it is pretty much irrelevant, especially after we've figured out all the genes. That's why there's the singularity hypothesis, that one day we'll just evolve into thinking machines and be done with meat bodies.

[JBroll]

... and now you know why it's frustrating to try to get a basic definition through to 'natural-is-better-omg-chemicals-aah!' jackasses. Whee.

Jeff

[The Somberlain]

To be quite honest, I am not amazed by this. Humanity isn't special and nature is merely what is.

[vampiregenocide]

Originally Posted by JBroll

... and now you know why it's frustrating to try to get a basic definition through to 'natural-is-better-omg-chemicals-aah!' jackasses. Whee.

Jeff

We do make a lot of toxic shit though.

[JBroll]

There are critters that exist solely to make toxic things... and we're not one of them! We have math, cookies, jazz, and space travel... so the next person who complains about how awful humanity is can go take a flying .... at invertebracy and shit-dwelling.

Jeff

[MF_Kitten]

Originally Posted by JBroll

There are critters that exist solely to make toxic things... and we're not one of them! We have math, cookies, jazz, and space travel... so the next person who complains about how awful humanity is can go take a flying .... at invertebracy and shit-dwelling.

Jeff

i don't think anyone's complained at humanity being awful, we've just been discussing what the cause of all the negative parts of our existence are, once you concider that everything is nature, and we're only animals without anything magical or spiritual, just pure mental ability and instinct.

and we DO have some issues that are really weird.

[Scar Symmetry]

Originally Posted by JBroll

There are critters that exist solely to make toxic things... and we're not one of them! We have math, cookies, jazz, and space travel... so the next person who complains about how awful humanity is can go take a flying .... at invertebracy and shit-dwelling.

Jeff

There it is, I knew there was a reason I was waiting for Jeff to weigh in.

[JBroll]

Nobody has mentioned it yet, which means that it's only a matter of time before someone screws everything up and mentions it.

As far as issues that are really weird... you can mate without being decapitated, being completely incorporated into a female that looks like a twelve-story office complex compared to you, or having to urinate on your partner from a distance of roughly fifteen to twenty times your own height, so I don't think we have much to complain about.

Jeff

[Adam Of Angels]

Originally Posted by JBroll

There are critters that exist solely to make toxic things... and we're not one of them! We have math, cookies, jazz, and space travel... so the next person who complains about how awful humanity is can go take a flying .... at invertebracy and shit-dwelling.

Jeff

This. I think its simply retarded when people talk about how much of a plague humanity is.. from a psychological standpoint, such an argument/opinion is nothing short of proof that said person has a problem with their self and their own actions rather than that of the human race.

[JBroll]

It could also be the modern-day intellectual equivalent of flannel and unwashed hair, except for... oh, wait, nevermind, that's *exactly* what it is. It's what happens when nobody criticizes and argues and everyone expects to get away with blathering nonsensically because they think it sounds cool - any slight hint of integrity would result in those beliefs being acted upon in the obvious way, but since more people notice bumper stickers we don't see enough of that.

Jeff

[The Somberlain]

Oh, it's just part of the whole green fad to hate humanity, but somehow love it. Like my neighbor's facebook status: "I just got a Prius, you're welcome Earth." It puzzles me that a ball of rock with some organic matter on it would care about the car a rich cliche pseudo-hippie kid would buy

[JBroll]

Originally Posted by The Somberlain

Like my neighbor's facebook status: "I just got a Prius, you're welcome Earth."

"I just killed a self-righteous hippie... you're welcome, gene pool."

Life is just too short to waste with jackasses like that. I know that the whole Facebook defriending thing can seem like a passive-aggressive jab to paranoid twats with nothing better to worry about, but sometimes it's a good move - every sentence like that is another quarter-second that you can never spend reading something that isn't stupid.

Jeff

[MrMcSick]

I cannot think of anything that exist's that has or have a number involved with it at some point in its life. Math and numbers are universal. Anyone?

[The Somberlain]

Originally Posted by JBroll

"I just killed a self-righteous hippie... you're welcome, gene pool."

Life is just too short to waste with jackasses like that. I know that the whole Facebook defriending thing can seem like a passive-aggressive jab to paranoid twats with nothing better to worry about, but sometimes it's a good move - every sentence like that is another quarter-second that you can never spend reading something that isn't stupid.

Jeff

He's my neighbor and I often had to drive him home last year. I am still trying to reach out to him with logic, but he defies it. He is also a second generation Korean kid who calls me unamerican because I like lots of foreign music.

Here's his yearbook comment:

"B-Rome (that's my nickname), Guess what? You're an awesome guy! One acts were amazing & even though your mucic (he spelled music wrong) choice sucks and is pretentious, you are still saavy. -Song"

[MF_Kitten]

Originally Posted by MrMcSick

I cannot think of anything that exist's that has or have a number involved with it at some point in its life. Math and numbers are universal. Anyone?

when you think about it, maths was discovered, not invented. we´re just so used to the fact that the terms we use are made by us. we easily forget that we didn´t make math. we just made words and symbols and stuff to make use of what´s already there.