SS Love and Relationships Thread

[HaMMerHeD]

A few years ago, it became clear to me that my then current way of thinking about myself, the world, women, and relationships was neither healthy nor helpful. So I found an affordable clinic, and have been talking to a psychologist to try to change my way of thinking. As you might expect, we do a lot of talking. Mostly, we talk about different emotional states. I believe that I am borderline aspergers, and while I can recognize emotional cues, it is usually unclear to me what they actually mean.

As a person who has spent most of his life hiding his emotional core from the rest of the world, and thus ignoring the emotional context of most situations, I found myself utterly unprepared to deal with situations as intense as my marriage, divorce, the loss of custody of my child, and then my ex-wife's suicide, and subsequent re-acqusition of aforementioned custody. (In case you are concerned, I have no problem helping my child parse her emotional issues. She is 8. Her emotional needs are simple right now. Of course, it's only going to get more complicated from here, which is where counseling comes in.)

Anyway...emotional states. We talk a lot about them in counseling. How to recognize them, how to determine the cause, and what to do about them if I decide it needs to change. It's not as simple as you might think. Where most people might understand these things without even thinking about it, I don't.

As it deals with relationships (which is what this thread is about), here is the basic run-down. When I am by myself...single, alone, and lonely, I am at my most stable. Everything is at its clearest. I can work, think, and function without significant challenge. It's not happy, but it's comfortable and predictable. It is in fact, extremely unhappy. But it's functional. Over the years, a lot of different friends have accused me of enjoying rejection and depression. While they were wrong about the enjoying part, they were hinting at something that I don't think they fully understood, and I know I didn't understand at all until recently. That is...it's what I said earlier. It's not happy, but it's comfortable. My post-rejection process is to shed emotional expression altogether and withdraw internally. I settle into a deep depression, which can last several years. It's a standard operational parameter for me. It's how I normally am.

But you add something as seemingly simple as female companionship, or even the simple prospect of it, and everything changes. Suddenly, I'm no longer swirling the drain. I can see, breathe, feel, and hear, and I don't hate the world for it. I can smile, through cracked and bloody lips at first, but I can smile. I actually feel good about myself, my life, and the world around me. That part of it is an intensely satisfying and addictive state. When I'm in my solo state, that's the thing I long for. The simple addition of another person in my life, who is there because she wants to be, not because she has to be, changes everything about my emotional processes.

Unfortunately, with that good, comes the inevitable insanity. It's a happy state of being, but it's not stable. Because I've been through this cycle so many times, I am constantly terrified that it's about to end. My highly analytical mind is always running at full throttle, always re-hashing every word, facial expression, gesture, and every other social cue, trying to discover hidden meanings within its own context, and then within the context of every other conversation, facial expression, etc. that I've ever experienced with that person. Generally speaking, there is only one conclusion that is ever reached by doing this: I am a terrible and unworthy person, and this amazing woman is going to realize it any second, and then it'll be over and everything will go back to normal.

Of course, I don't actually want that to happen, so that thought process causes me an indescribable amount of anxiety. It comes and goes throughout the day, and over a period of weeks, for however long the relationship lasts. I try to ignore it, and I try to do other things to occupy myself until the feeling passes, but it's extremely difficult. How do you stop thinking? I've spent almost my entire life buried in thought. I don't know how to stop. Everyone says "Just stop" as if that's some incredibly brilliant piece of existential wisdom. But nobody ever has any practical advice about how to go about doing so. To this day, I've never found anything to be effective at redirecting my thoughts.

So...there it is. I'm having one of those anxious days. Really, it's been two days now. Sometimes I wake up and I feel calm and at ease. Sometimes not. On days like today and yesterday, I wake up with an intense feeling of dread...shakiness, elevated blood pressure, etc. Sometimes it's so intense it feels like a mild heart attack, but it's just anxiety.

Not sure why anybody but me should give a shit, but there it is anyway.

[Faine]

Well why do you think you're a terrible unworthy person? You have to change the way you think. I'm sure theres a reason why some wonderful lady chose you for a reason. She likes you for something. Show her a good time, show her youre a great guy. She chose YOU. Dont let her down because of how you think about yourself and how you think the world portrays you. Its good that you can feel stable and comfortable when you're alone, whether it be hobbies or just plain ol' being comfortable with yourself. Maybe show her some things you like to do when you're alone and make yourself happy. Open up and let her in. If you trust her enough maybe she'll like the same things too. If you keep thinking about those paranoid thoughts that maybe she wont like you anymore or think youre a bad person it could eventually push her away. I know its hard to say " be happy" or " stop thinking about it" because I know those things can be difficult.
My best advice is just open up to her, let her in. She chose you for a reason, she likes you. She's not out to hurt you or let you down.

[HaMMerHeD]

Yeah, I'm working on it. Like I said, I've been in counseling for a few years now. There are a lot of reasons I feel terrible and unworthy. The simple fact that she is interested in me obviously indicates that I am not unworthy, and if emotional responses were rational in any way, that would be great. But...the paranoia persists, because it is not based in truth, but in irrational fear.

And for the record, I have most definitely been opening up to her. I've told her about all of my neuroses, and she is still there, so it seems like it doesn't bother her that much. She told me that she admires me for the strength of character it takes to fight through all that fear and anxiety, and still manage to make forward progress.

Anyway..I'm working on it. And thanks for the reply.

[Faine]

Originally Posted by HaMMerHeD

And for the record, I have most definitely been opening up to her. I've told her about all of my neuroses, and she is still there, so it seems like it doesn't bother her that much. She told me that she admires me for the strength of character it takes to fight through all that fear and anxiety, and still manage to make forward progress.

Anyway..I'm working on it. And thanks for the reply.

Thats great! Good to know shes still there for you and knows the situation. She must really like you. Women like confident men, and She can see that youre a strong guy with strength of character willing to overcome this. She probably wants to help you and go through it together!

[blaaargh]

Last night, me and my ladyfriend went to our friend's 21st birthday party. I had a great time, but she has extreme social phobia, to the point where if we're in a group that's larger than 4-5 people she'll completely withdraw from the group. It was a very small party, not even ten people there, but it was still way too much for her to handle. On top of that, there was another girl there that kept hitting on me. I didn't realize this until relatively late, and though I didn't respond to her advances, the gf was still really pissed at me. She didn't say anything until we got home though, by which point she was so distraught that she started off by screaming at me and ended by cutting herself in front of me. I was kind of drunk and really confused, so I didn't know what the .... to do. Afterward she said she wouldn't cut again, and I believe her. Aside from one other time when she threatened to do it, but didn't go through with it, she's never cut since I've known her, though she used to a lot. I was, and still am, too overwhelmed by the whole situation to even be able to respond - my mind simply refused to process what happened.

She finally calmed down enough to talk about what happened this afternoon, and we were able to work through everything and come to an understanding. I just figured I'd post here to try and sort out my feelings as to what happened. On one hand, I can kind of understand why she reacted the way she did - all her other relationships before this one have been very unhealthy, and she was cheated on and lied to constantly. Another thing that came out in our conversations was that in her last relationship, she took all the blame for their problems, including the guy cheating on her, which left no room for her to be angry at him, and her anger at me may have come from that. On the other hand, though, she clearly overreacted. The girl at the party didn't do much more than give me looks which I didn't return, and this somehow became in her head "you were flirting with her and completely ignoring me," both of which were completely untrue. Several times during the night, I would sit with her when the rest of the people there were somewhere else, and at no point did I have any intention of flirting with the other girl. Her reaction was completely unfair to me and to herself.

In the end, though, I'm just glad that we were able to get through this without a lot of unnecessary bullshit. She's always had these sorts of emotional issues, and I knew what I was getting into before I started dating her. We've been together a year now, and she's been steadily gaining ground the whole time. We've had our rough spots, but overall our relationship is very strong. I couldn't imagine myself with anyone else. She's the sweetest, most caring person I've met, and absolutely gorgeous to boot. When she's happy, she lights up my world, which is more often than not. I'm happier than I've ever been, and she is too. Hopefully we can keep this thing going for a long time.

[The Reverend]

Originally Posted by HaMMerHeD

Yeah, I'm working on it. Like I said, I've been in counseling for a few years now. There are a lot of reasons I feel terrible and unworthy. The simple fact that she is interested in me obviously indicates that I am not unworthy, and if emotional responses were rational in any way, that would be great. But...the paranoia persists, because it is not based in truth, but in irrational fear.

And for the record, I have most definitely been opening up to her. I've told her about all of my neuroses, and she is still there, so it seems like it doesn't bother her that much. She told me that she admires me for the strength of character it takes to fight through all that fear and anxiety, and still manage to make forward progress.

Anyway..I'm working on it. And thanks for the reply.

Someone close to me has the same cycle of negative thoughts, and while I generally tell him to just stop, I can speak from experience about how simultaneously easy and hard that is.

People like us are thinkers. We think about everything, constantly, but a factor we tend to forget is that the actual thoughts we have, the very words our inner voices use and the logic behind, is actually tinged, or stained, rather, by underlying emotional states. We may see ourselves as more rational than the average person, and while that often is the case, when it comes to an issue that is personal, or even just relates to us, our logic goes through that filter. It's like a self-check; unconsciously, or sometimes even consciously, we change statements from "I'm a good person" to "I'm not a good person," not based on any actual truth. We then demand proof from ourselves on why we should be considered a good person. You can replace 'good' with any adjective you want for this, by the way.

I'm sure your therapist has said something about retraining your thoughts? It's easy as ...., but also probably the hardest habit to break. We have that constant internal monologue, analyzing and deciphering the world around us, and it's incredibly easy to let negative or untrue thoughts enter that storm of thoughts and dominate them. What you should do is lie to yourself.

Practice this: An awkward or negative incident happens with the woman you're attracted to. You obsess over it, breaking it down from every angle before deciding that you ....ed up -whether you did or not. Tell yourself "It wasn't a big deal, and I'm a great person." Say it a few times. Notice how your 'inner troll' is sitting there in the corner of your mind, disbelieving your main inner voice? That's literally your neuroses talking. It pervades your brain with the feeling of bullshit, and that's what you need to change, among others.

It's not easy, but it's a skill that can be gained and eventually used instinctively. It's akin to playing guitar; at first, playing the damn thing standing up was tough, until enough practice made it come naturally. If you capitalize on positive events in your life as reminders, and focus on objective, true positives about yourself, given time and persistence, you will start to change your habitual thinking process. There's more to this, like making changes in your lifestyle, but I'm sure you probably already knew this, considering you've made the leap to getting professional help already.

As far as interpreting emotions goes, I don't think I have any form of Asperger's, so I'm not sure I can give any advice on that. I do know that I don't feel the same intensity of emotions as everyone else, because I overly analyze things. Consider it a sort of rational empathy: it's hard for me to feel bad for friends losing people, because my brain comes up with a million reasons why it's natural, and I fail to recognize what it has to do with me. I'm smart enough to know, however, that it's tough for others, so I try to be as supportive as possible.

You may be able to get by with something like that? Again, I'm not sure exactly what your therapist has told you, but it's definitely more well-informed and likely to work. I'm just throwing out advice that worked and continues to work for me, and maybe some lurker will see this post and realize there's light at the end of tunnel.

tl;dr
It's literally as easy as just stopping, and literally harder than just stopping.

[ghstofperdition]

So after a month of not seeing my bf, I got to spend the last two days in a row with him. Hell I even got laid today. Feels good man...

[HaMMerHeD]

Originally Posted by The Reverend

<snip>

First, thanks for your thoughtful reply.

Second, yes, my therapist and I have been talking a lot about retraining thoughts. It's a long process. I know it is exactly as easy as "stop thinking about it", but that's the bitch. I don't know how. So we work on it. After my daughter's mother died, it took on a new sense of urgency, because I don't see that it is good to raise a kid when all I want to do is burn the world to dust. How could she possibly have a healthy disposition if that is the model from which she learns? That's where my inner monologue leads me, and it is obviously unhealthy. So for her sake (and my sake too, but mostly hers) it has to change.

[Faine]

Originally Posted by HaMMerHeD

all I want to do is burn the world to dust.

What I thought of. Good song. oldie.

[Sicarius]

judge all you want, but

[The Reverend]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

judge all you want, but

I second that. And third it, even.

[flint757]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

judge all you want, but

Dat Azz

[AngstRiddenDreams]

Mmmmmmmmmm I'd love to stick my face in that.

[Bekanor]

I stood next to a Ferrari 575 for a few seconds today and all my girl worries melted away, I should get one.

[Sicarius]

speaking of exotics I saw an Aston Martin DB9 (I think)

Dear lord.

Not that I'd snub my nose at a 575, but if it were a 458 or 599 I'd probably go to jail for sexual assault on a motor vehicle.



skip to :40 ish, That's what I'm talkin' bout.

not the mustard and poodle thing. that's just weird.

[leandroab]

Originally Posted by flint757

Dat Azz

Dat LACK of azz yo say...

[flint757]

Originally Posted by leandroab

Dat LACK of azz yo say...

IDK I'm not a fan of the over plump ass because it usually leads to other parts being overly plump. Part of the reason I like dancer bodies.

[ghstofperdition]

Originally Posted by flint757

IDK I'm not a fan of the over plump ass because it usually leads to other parts being overly plump. Part of the reason I like dancer bodies.

Clearly you haven't experienced the awesome qualities of cute chubby girls like myself.

Seriously though, when I see really skinny girls, I can't help but want to buy them a cheeseburger or something.

[flexkill]

Originally Posted by HaMMerHeD

<snip>

First of all, That is some extremely deep shit you are talking about, and Kudos to you for being open and being able to share such an emotional subject about yourself. You have a very nice way with words I might add....Do you write at all? If not, I think you should try. Not Only will it be good for your soul, I think you would excel at it.

I also wanted to add, that you and your daughter are going to be just fine Bro. I say this, because from reading your post, you are a very intelligent person who has a leg up on most people in this world.... that being you where smart enough to realize your problems and then smart enough to ask for help to fix them. Believe me, most Humans are not this smart.

Good luck to you man.

[leftyguitarjoe]

Hey guys, is it detrimental to my love life that I find flirtatious behavior to be obnoxious and unnecessary?

There is also my weird thing about touching people. I dont like it. I wouldnt call it a phobia. It just makes me uncomfortable. I dont even like hugging my immediate family.

[flint757]

Originally Posted by leftyguitarjoe

Hey guys, is it detrimental to my love life that I find flirtatious behavior to be obnoxious and unnecessary?

There is also my weird thing about touching people. I dont like it. I wouldnt call it a phobia. It just makes me uncomfortable. I dont even like hugging my immediate family.

I find dating procedure and the flirt/ignore policy to hook up with some people to be dumb too. And it has hindered my date life a bit. you may find someone without it,but it doesn't hurt to play the game if you like someone and they don't know you actually like them. Then again maybe the prson right for you hates it too.

[leftyguitarjoe]

Originally Posted by flint757

I find dating procedure and the flirt/ignore policy to hook up with some people to be dumb too. And it has hindered my date life a bit. you may find someone without it,but it doesn't hurt to play the game if you like someone and they don't know you actually like them. Then again maybe the prson right for you hates it too.

My thing is that I do this thing where I dont act on emotion. I dont show anger, sadness, and in this case, attraction. Acting on emotion leads to nothing but bad things. If I'm interested in a girl, I have to find out more to see if she is worth it. My whole life I've been surrounded by people having nothing but terrible experiences with sex and relationships and I refuse to let that happen to me.

Its all a big headache thats better to be avoided. I'll worry about it when the perfect woman knocks on my front door. Until then, I'll just hide in my room and make music.

[Sicarius]

Originally Posted by ghstofperdition

Clearly you haven't experienced the awesome qualities of cute chubby girls like myself.

Seriously though, when I see really skinny girls, I can't help but want to buy them a cheeseburger or something.

until you lose your dick,

you're not a chick.

Not trying to be mean lol

[flint757]

Originally Posted by leftyguitarjoe

My thing is that I do this thing where I dont act on emotion. I dont show anger, sadness, and in this case, attraction. Acting on emotion leads to nothing but bad things. If I'm interested in a girl, I have to find out more to see if she is worth it. My whole life I've been surrounded by people having nothing but terrible experiences with sex and relationships and I refuse to let that happen to me.

Its all a big headache thats better to be avoided. I'll worry about it when the perfect woman knocks on my front door. Until then, I'll just hide in my room and make music.

me and you could be brothers same experiences

The thing is girls think you don't like them if you don't act attracted so it makes it difficult. It just means you'd have to date a friend and can't date(and not be friends) strangers basically. Limits the pool a bit...

[leftyguitarjoe]

Originally Posted by flint757

me and you could be brothers same experiences

The thing is girls think you don't like them if you don't act attracted so it makes it difficult. It just means you'd have to date a friend and can't date(and not be friends) strangers basically. Limits the pool a bit...

At this point I dont even want to get in the pool. The reward doesnt justify the cost to obtain it.