[7stringninja]

Alright. I've been progressively getting more and more happy with my sweeps, BUT there is one particular thing that I cannot get to sound acceptable by my standards.



Ok, so from everything I've been taugh and from what I've read, the best way to make sweeps sound clean and make every note very clear and defined, is to make sure the notes do not ring into each other. Some people roll their palms across the strings, causing a palm mute immediately before the next note is played. Others unfret (sometimes still keeping the finger lightly on the string to prevent sounding the open string) the note to stop it from ringing.

Unfretting/releasing the note is the way I've always done it and have had most success with. I think I also unconsciously do a slight palm-mute as well.

The specific instance that I have the most trouble with is, when you have a sweep that uses the same fret across multiple strings (at least 2 or more in a row). For example - (Dstring 14th, Gstring 12th, Bstring 12th, Estring 12th)

I try my best on 99% of my sweeps to use a different finger for each note, so that I am not barring any strings. Even if the same fret is used twice (but not in a row) I do not bar, but instead pick my finger off the first occurance of that fret, and move it to the next.

But with 2 or more of the same fret in a row, it's physically impossible (for me anyways) to pick my finger off of that individual string and move it to the next on the same fret before my pick has hit the note. I've tried using 3 separate fingers for each note, and while it's very cramped, it works. BUT, if the sweep pattern is bigger than just the 3 notes (like the example above), its nearly impossible at high speeds.


Any suggestions?

[Metal Ken]

I do a combination of muting and unfretting, so that works well for me.. But, i often use bar shapes in the arpeggios to great success. you wanna try to 'roll' your finger...

[7stringninja]

I've been sitting here for the past hour analyzing what exactly my hands are doing.

The one other thing that I have trouble with is flawless transitions between up-strokes and down-strokes.

It seems as though, when I am ascending and my hand is in the palm-mute position, my pick strokes across the strings, just behind the neck pickup. When I switch to descending, in order for the tip of my pick to graze across the strings like I want it to do, I have to slightly shift my hand. My wrist pivots slightly towards to top of the guitar, pivoting on the bridge near the 7th or 6th string. This bothers me, because it pervents me from palm-mutting the 1st few strings when descending in a sweep.

I've tried to keep my hand in the same position while going both directions, but it makes my grip on the pick uneasy while descending. Too much of the pick hits the string. The only way I see to correct this while keeping the same picking position is to angle the pick more, but the angle required is IMO too drastic for practical use.

One other tidbit I noticed while studying this. My pinky on my picking hand has the tendancy to tuck itself inward, sometimes far enough where it is touching the pinky-pad on my hand. This doesn't seem like it would cause huge issues, but it does in this situation. The furthest I can move my hand down (vertically) puts my pinky-pad right over the 1st string bridge spot while palm-mutting. My pinky occassionally taps the string itself or accidentally causes unwanted muting.

My volume knob is positioned directly under the rear pole-pieces of my bridge pup. about 1" below the trim on the pup. The knob itself may be one of the factors causing some problems.

I dunno

[Nik]

Why don't you roll with your fretting hand rather than doing all this funky stuff where you shift your fingers? I mean, everybody from John Petrucci to Rusty Cooley rolls when you have to play notes at the same fret on a different string, to great success, might I add.

[Oogadee Boogadee]

I barre when on the same fret (bar? barre?). i just roll - tip of the finger on the string first, during an ascending sweep, and lay each section of the finger down one at a time, until i'm at the high e with my first finger joint on the string, and the tip of the finger up and released from the low e/b.

i don't know how you can't barre - i never even tried your method! that's crazy. imagine sweeping an E-shaped chord withing barring.

--------------------------12-h-15-p-12barred index joint to pinky-
----------------------12-barred index tip------------------
------------------13-mid finger tip-------------------------
--------------14-barred with ring finger last joint----------
----------14-barred with ring finger tip)---------------------
12-h-15-index to pinky--------------------------------------

Keep in mind this - it's not "barre everything, and release as you sweep"

It's more a fret, and roll with the same finger. so technically, nothing is barred, since only one string is literally fretted at a time.

Imagine fretting a 3-note powerchord with index, middle, and pinky finger. you're playing with all finger tips.

now, lift up the pinky, and lay down the ring finger, creating a bar. now you're doing the lazy 3-notes with 2 fingers powerchord.

Then, release the middle string from the ring finger tip, unbarring teh double stop, so that you're now playing an octave. Technically, you're not barring - well, you are, but you're barring to mute, not to sound 2 notes with the barre. hope this makes sense.

i think i just relax my picking hand and strum like i would an acoustic. maybe it's wrong. i dont' know. but when i'm limp, it's not as hard

and on the down stroke, i'm kinda striking with the bridge-side edge of the pick (sort of slicing), with the pick falling down teh strings top edge first, then i pull up with the pick flattened back out, pick surface near parallel to the string. i never messed with palm muting my sweeps - and i think doing the loose strumming style probably conflicts with that method - but i'd rather do the fret release method anyway.

[7stringninja]

Originally Posted by Nik

Why don't you roll with your fretting hand rather than doing all this funky stuff where you shift your fingers? I mean, everybody from John Petrucci to Rusty Cooley rolls when you have to play notes at the same fret on a different string, to great success, might I add.

Well, there are a few reasons.

1) When at all possible, I try to keep my technique consistant, no matter what I am playing. I've adapted classical style finger to my playing and it has drastically improved everything about my playing. I arch my fretting fingers so that they are approaching the string from directly above. You will see alot of guitarists, even very well respected ones, playing with their fingers extended. For example - Using that approach, while playing a single note riff on the 7th string, you are also touching the 6th string, and maybe more. When you are palm-mutting, this is almost unnoticable (but it's still making SOME sound) but when NOT pm'ing, these slight touches can be the difference between an "ok" sound and a "great" sound. I'm not saying I don't do this from time to time, but I've been trying to break the habit.

2) When sweeping, fretting each note individually really helps bring out the note as a single individual note, rather than being part of a chord being strummed slowly.

The best example I can think of, is the standard D-major shaped arpeggio. I'll use the C-major position in my example. For a 3-note sweep, you are playing: Gstring 12th-fret, Bstring 13th fret, Estring 12th-fret. You COULD just barre your index across the 12th fret and use your 2nd finger to fret the 13th, but I try to avoid this. I would use a 1,3,2 fingering respectively. In some instances I even find it better to 2,3,1 (has slightly different sound because of the approach by the 1st finger, and even recently (within the past week) I've experimented with the 1,2,1 fingering, but without barring. This is ALMOST like the roll I've been trying to use for the 12,12,12, example I first posted about. Main difference is I have that extra millisecond to get in the desired position.

[bostjan]

I try to avoid most barres and use hammer ons or pull offs whenever possible.

[Oogadee Boogadee]

Originally Posted by 7stringninja

Well, there are a few reasons.

1) When at all possible, I try to keep my technique consistant, no matter what I am playing. I've adapted classical style finger to my playing and it has drastically improved everything about my playing. I arch my fretting fingers so that they are approaching the string from directly above. You will see alot of guitarists, even very well respected ones, playing with their fingers extended. For example - Using that approach, while playing a single note riff on the 7th string, you are also touching the 6th string, and maybe more. When you are palm-mutting, this is almost unnoticable (but it's still making SOME sound) but when NOT pm'ing, these slight touches can be the difference between an "ok" sound and a "great" sound. I'm not saying I don't do this from time to time, but I've been trying to break the habit.

2) When sweeping, fretting each note individually really helps bring out the note as a single individual note, rather than being part of a chord being strummed slowly.

The best example I can think of, is the standard D-major shaped arpeggio. I'll use the C-major position in my example. For a 3-note sweep, you are playing: Gstring 12th-fret, Bstring 13th fret, Estring 12th-fret. You COULD just barre your index across the 12th fret and use your 2nd finger to fret the 13th, but I try to avoid this. I would use a 1,3,2 fingering respectively. In some instances I even find it better to 2,3,1 (has slightly different sound because of the approach by the 1st finger, and even recently (within the past week) I've experimented with the 1,2,1 fingering, but without barring. This is ALMOST like the roll I've been trying to use for the 12,12,12, example I first posted about. Main difference is I have that extra millisecond to get in the desired position.

rolling ENSURES that one note at a time is sounded. you're gong to reach a point where you've reached the limits of what can be accomplished with your technique, and to connect some extra notes here and there, at faster tempos, you're gong to have to free your fingers from cramping on one string and you're going to HAVE to barre. the only benefit i can see that your method will accomplish, that barring can't, is teh added ability to hammer hard on the notes, sounding notes with minimal picking power, which can be a crutch.

peer pressure. go to the barre!!!! drink up!!!!

[7stringninja]

This is the particular sweep I am having difficulties with.


The first measure is how it is "supposed to be played".

The second measure is how I changed it to make it easier for me. I pick the first 3 with down strokes, the last with an up.

The 3rd measure is the same sweep but with one note added.

The 4th measure is how I would play it using my variation. The problem is, with the 4th note being an upstroke, and then having another note on the next string, it makes it VERY difficult to make it sound fluid and clean.

It appears in this instance, it is necessary to use the shaping from the 1st measure, but I'm just getting frustrated. Maybe I'm just too OCD about my technique and sound. It's ok, but I want perfection.

[7stringninja]

One other thing to add.

I'm not sure if this is a technique everyone uses, but I try to fret the note at the last possible moment, but early enough so that the string is not picked during fretting.

I've never had formal training other than classical stuff (for a short time) and there was no sweep lesson.

What I've learned, I've learned from reading and observation. Kris Norris from Darkest Hour has one of the best modern sweep sounds IMO and even after studying his vidz, I'm still left with questions.