[Naren]

I thought I might as well start practicing to be a faster lead guitarist and maybe try to get sweep picking down, so I started practicing and studying Frank Gambale's "Speed Picking."

From watching videos of him play, he sweeps and picks very very fast while looking like he's not even trying or thinking about it at all, so I know his method has to be really effective, but it just feels really unnatural and uncomfortable to me right now. Normally when I solo, depending on which direction I'm going, I'll do down picking or regular alternate picking. His style of picking is like alternate picking except that instead of being consistently down up down up down up like alternate, it depends on whether you're changing strings or not and which direction you're going, and could be down up down down up down up down up up down up up down down up down.

My fingers feel really really weird.

Any advice on the fastest way to get used to this? I suppose I'm supposed to just play this to a metronome and go faster and faster, but from what speed to what speed? And in what increments? He explains how everything works and gives lots of examples (which could work as exercises), but he doesn't say anything about how to go about learning everything or getting used to it, etc.

[distressed_romeo]

Originally Posted by Naren

I thought I might as well start practicing to be a faster lead guitarist and maybe try to get sweep picking down, so I started practicing and studying Frank Gambale's "Speed Picking."

From watching videos of him play, he sweeps and picks very very fast while looking like he's not even trying or thinking about it at all, so I know his method has to be really effective, but it just feels really unnatural and uncomfortable to me right now. Normally when I solo, depending on which direction I'm going, I'll do down picking or regular alternate picking. His style of picking is like alternate picking except that instead of being consistently down up down up down up like alternate, it depends on whether you're changing strings or not and which direction you're going, and could be down up down down up down up down up up down up up down down up down.

My fingers feel really really weird.

Any advice on the fastest way to get used to this? I suppose I'm supposed to just play this to a metronome and go faster and faster, but from what speed to what speed? And in what increments? He explains how everything works and gives lots of examples (which could work as exercises), but he doesn't say anything about how to go about learning everything or getting used to it, etc.

It took me ages to get used to this, and I avoided putting in the time with it for that reason. I only really started working at it when I realised that I was naturally playing certain parts using this method, and so figured I'd go with what works. Nowadays it's a pretty essential part of my technique.

The best thing I can recommend is to be patient and to do a little bit each day rather than marathon practice sessions. In addition to that, put in the time to develop your legato technique, as a lot of the problems I've had with sweep/economy picking are actually related to sloppy fretting rather than picking hand speed.
Also, it might be beneficial if you're new to the technique to try some smaller exercises, like 3 string arpeggios or simple repetitive picking patterns that accentuate the sweeping motion, rather than trying to sweep huge scales and arps immediately.

Hope that helps!

[Michael]

Originally Posted by Naren

...it just feels really unnatural and uncomfortable to me right now.

That's normal (if you're just starting out on sweeping/alt. picking) and there's no real way around it at this stage. I'd just suggest making sure you're properly warmed up before you practice. It's like warming up/streching before working out/exercising. Just play some chromatics and stuff until you get the blood flowing in your hands and fingers. It'll improve your practice sessions a great deal.

Originally Posted by Naren

Any advice on the fastest way to get used to this? I suppose I'm supposed to just play this to a metronome and go faster and faster, but from what speed to what speed? And in what increments? He explains how everything works and gives lots of examples (which could work as exercises), but he doesn't say anything about how to go about learning everything or getting used to it, etc.

I think you need to figure what speed you're most comfortable playing the exercises you're using, aswell as figure out the maximun speed you can play them at cleanly. Then each time you practice, go up and down between those two tempos. It'll increase over time. But it's really important to know what you're comfortable with/capable of.

[Naren]

Originally Posted by distressed_romeo

It took me ages to get used to this, and I avoided putting in the time with it for that reason. I only really started working at it when I realised that I was naturally playing certain parts using this method, and so figured I'd go with what works. Nowadays it's a pretty essential part of my technique.

The best thing I can recommend is to be patient and to do a little bit each day rather than marathon practice sessions. In addition to that, put in the time to develop your legato technique, as a lot of the problems I've had with sweep/economy picking are actually related to sloppy fretting rather than picking hand speed.
Also, it might be beneficial if you're new to the technique to try some smaller exercises, like 3 string arpeggios or simple repetitive picking patterns that accentuate the sweeping motion, rather than trying to sweep huge scales and arps immediately.

Hope that helps!

Thanks for the advice.

Yeah, mainly I've just been doing 3-note-per-string scales from the low E to the high E (and sometimes the low B to the high E), using his techniques. I've been trying arpeggios and even tried sweeping a little, but my fingers are not used to it at all.

I think the problems are mostly in my right hand and not my left hand. I had been practicing picking fast with my right hand for rhythm guitar for a long time, tremolo picking at 210bpm and all that stuff (you probably remember the thread), but that was mostly down-picking and alternate picking. Frank Gambale's style is a lot harder.

He said that "this style may seem very awkward at first, but once you get used to it, it really is worth it."

I guess my question is: how long does it take to get used to it? I've mainly just had a guitar in my hand while watching movies and running through scales with his style (correcting myself over and over again) and then spending a few minutes with a metronome when I'm not watching a movie.

I think I still am at an appropriate practice area for my level. I'm nowhere near the level of trying to practice sweeps at 160bpm or anything like that. I first tried learning to sweep about a year and a half ago, but I completely sucked, so I just gave up, but I thought that it'd be better if I could learn to do it anyway.

And, in addition to that, I just want to get my normal soloing speed faster and smoother. And his picking style seems to be optimal for that.

Originally Posted by Michael

That's normal (if you're just starting out on sweeping/alt. picking) and there's no real way around it at this stage. I'd just suggest making sure you're properly warmed up before you practice. It's like warming up/streching before working out/exercising. Just play some chromatics and stuff until you get the blood flowing in your hands and fingers. It'll improve your practice sessions a great deal.

Thanks. I hadn't really considered this.

Figures... since I've always had a problem with skipping warming-up and basic exercises.

Originally Posted by Michael

I think you need to figure what speed you're most comfortable playing the exercises you're using, aswell as figure out the maximun speed you can play them at cleanly. Then each time you practice, go up and down between those two tempos. It'll increase over time. But it's really important to know what you're comfortable with/capable of.

Mainly I've been trying 8th notes at 120bpm and 150bpm because I'm so new to this and not used to it at all. Nothing special. I can play really clean at 120bpm, but problems start to crop up around 150. I tried 190bpm last night just to see what percentage I could get right and it was a disaster.

Like you suggested, I'm completely new to sweeping. I had tried it out a year and a half ago like I mentioned above, but I gave up pretty soon. I'm not new to alternate picking. I've been alternate picking for over 5 years. It's Frank Gambale's picking that I'm not used to, which is quite different from alternate picking. I'm not sure whether you're familiar with it or not.

Thanks.

[Michael]

Originally Posted by Naren

Mainly I've been trying 8th notes at 120bpm and 150bpm because I'm so new to this and not used to it at all. Nothing special. I can play really clean at 120bpm, but problems start to crop up around 150. I tried 190bpm last night just to see what percentage I could get right and it was a disaster.

Hmm, maybe try doing the same exercises but in 16th note groupings around the 80-90 range. I find it's a lot easier to keep up with a slower beat, even if it's the same amount of notes being played.

[S-O]

I think Economy picking is the best way

But Gambale is very rigid with it, sticking to the up 3 up 3 up 2 down 3 type of Ideas.

Try a less strict method, simply when ascending up to higher strings, use a down pick. When descending, use a down pick. This way you don't have to stick to his strict 3 3 2.

Try this; too lazy to put into a tab.

E string 8 10 12
A 8 10 12
D 9 10 12
G 9 10 12
B 10 12 13
e 10 12 13

For a turn around,

e 10 12 13 12 10

Then go backwards from before.

[hanachanmaru]

gotten his sweep picking booklet + audio CD and that was my first answer to sweep picking years back ... however i didnt really studies how he transform his own way of pentatonic sweeps which is caters very much for his own style as told earlier in this thread.... well all i know was down up down and the next strings is gotta be another down and this sequence goes on and on... i applied this on paul gilbert practise on his famous three notes two strings picking when he picks down up down and up hitting the next string consecutively... instead of going attacking between strings in "outer form" i applied the down up down down up down to attack two strings "inwards between the strings.. hope is well eleborated here and now i found that alternate picking is however more flexible and due to the years of sweep picking adaptation is becoming hotter and hotter to use it as i practise my picking... and now i could not alternate pick in paul gilbert's or greg howe way... ;(

[Naren]

Originally Posted by hanachanmaru

gotten his sweep picking booklet + audio CD and that was my first answer to sweep picking years back ... however i didnt really studies how he transform his own way of pentatonic sweeps which is caters very much for his own style as told earlier in this thread.... well all i know was down up down and the next strings is gotta be another down and this sequence goes on and on... i applied this on paul gilbert practise on his famous three notes two strings picking when he picks down up down and up hitting the next string consecutively... instead of going attacking between strings in "outer form" i applied the down up down down up down to attack two strings "inwards between the strings.. hope is well eleborated here and now i found that alternate picking is however more flexible and due to the years of sweep picking adaptation is becoming hotter and hotter to use it as i practise my picking... and now i could not alternate pick in paul gilbert's or greg howe way... ;(

So, are you saying you think that alternate picking is better or his picking is better?

Because I can already alternate pick really well, but can't sweep worth shit and I'm struggling with trying to get down Gambale's style.

[hanachanmaru]

Originally Posted by Naren

So, are you saying you think that alternate picking is better or his picking is better?

Because I can already alternate pick really well, but can't sweep worth shit and I'm struggling with trying to get down Gambale's style.

Ohhhh !!!! perhaps you should get me some tips off for alternate picking cause i am shit at that !!! hahaha ... perhaps u should try some Cooley's sweeping his techniques are just amazing with straight down pick for appreggios + some hammer ons and pull offs .. i stress he is a legato king !!! hahaha... i was blown away by his first instructional i got from chops from hell !!! is just ass ripping... but again if your tipping off to get started on thoese basic sweep pick cooley is by far my idol !!! but frank gambale would be more indept to learn as he incoperates pentatonics three notes per strings with sweeping techniques as u realised is very small broken up sweeps each time you study it ...

i have no say on which is better cause i am just an amaturist here hahaha sorry but i personally feel that if i can do alternate pick is a plus for me cause if i were to alternate string skips is just easier and clearer with less misses doing insanely wide skips between strings... cause alternate pickers like paul gilbert or greg howe always end up with an up stroke when approaching to the next string below... ( "an outwards pick attack") is just easier and would strike the string clearer... i tried to adapt to it but i just couldent get fast like paul gilbert or cooley's alternate... so i ended up with a down stroke and at times i miss it or hitted other strings which comes by way.... ;(

like michael angelo encourages do it both ways !!! alternate and sweep as this statement would set another phrase of my guitar picking haha...

[Naren]

Well, I was thinking of learning this to use for faster soloing and sweeping and then use regular alternate picking for more normal solos and regular arpeggios. I'm not exactly sure, but Gambale's method seems very indepth and effective.

If I wanted to learn from Cooley, how would I go about that? I'd need an indepth book or something.

Well, obviously being able to do it both ways is the best, but you know how it goes...