[Randy]

Anybody have a definitive guide/way of dissecting the kinda rhythm they use in Meshuggah songs, etc. and writing partwork similarly? I'm a total noob to that aspect of writing so I was hoping someone could shine some light on the subject.

Considering how common that kinda thing is on here, and a lot of ERG oriented music; a really great reference would probably make a great sticky. Thanks in advance!

EDIT: All my searches have only turned up polyrhythms as far as multi-limb independent drumming and I'm guessing that's not exactly what I'm looking for.

[ElRay]

Seems we're heading down a similar track, except I'm looking at it from a finger picking point of view.

Originally Posted by levelhead86

All my searches have only turned up polyrhythms as far as multi-limb independent drumming and I'm guessing that's not exactly what I'm looking for.

Same here. I've started looking at this and seeing what I can extract. The first idea would be to look at simple two (or three) part polyrhythms and assign one part to each instrument (string or group of strings in my case) and use that as the rhythmic component. Then you could add what ever tonal aspects you'd like on top of the rhythm.

You could take something else from finger picking. Look-up Travis Picking and have one instrument play the "on beat" parts of a pattern and another instrument play the "off beat" parts. That wouldn't give you pure polyrhythms, but it would give a pulsing, quasi-syncopated feel.

You could also borrow a trick from Rush (I'm sure others have done this too). Bass and guitar would be playing alternating 6/8 and 7/8 while the drums were playing three bars of 3/4 and one of 4/4. Again giving a pulsing/surging feel.

Ray

[Randy]

Thanks for the help! Hopefully we get a really great, indepth kind of guide out of this.

Originally Posted by ElRay

You could also borrow a trick from Rush (I'm sure others have done this too). Bass and guitar would be playing alternating 6/8 and 7/8 while the drums were playing three bars of 3/4 and one of 4/4. Again giving a pulsing/surging feel.

Ray

Yeah, that's the only polyrhythm stuff I'm at ALL familiar with/have experience with.

Or just simpler stuff, like alternating rhythm on one instrument and a straight beat underneath. But even with something like that, when I hear it on somebodyelses recording... it's uber-hard to dissect the time signature from the riff/passage.

[Metal Ken]

Originally Posted by ElRay

You could also borrow a trick from Rush (I'm sure others have done this too). Bass and guitar would be playing alternating 6/8 and 7/8 while the drums were playing three bars of 3/4 and one of 4/4. Again giving a pulsing/surging feel.

Ray

Which song is this?

[Uber Mega]

Read/Watch "Rhythmic Illusions", "Rhythmic Visions" etc. by Gavin Harrison (Porcupine Tree)...he's one of the leading guys in the world at this sort of stuff.

[ElRay]

Originally Posted by Metal Ken

Which song is this?

IIRC Red Barchetta is one and they've done the same or something similar on others.

Ray

[Desecrated]

How do YOU count math/tech metal?

Re-casting Metal: Rhythm and Meter in the Music of Meshuggah 27 pages article

[ElRay]

Originally Posted by Uber Mega

Read/Watch "Rhythmic Illusions", "Rhythmic Visions" etc. by Gavin Harrison ...

I have "Rhythmic Illusions", "Rhythmic Perspectives" and "Rhythmic Visions" in my Amazon.com Wish List, but haven't picked them up yet.

Ray

[Uber Mega]

One of the most important things Gavin teaches is that, use Polyrhythms etc. to aid the music, don't just shove them in there because you want it to be uber tech. Anyone can make mathematical polymetrics, but making them sound musical is the hard part. He's the master at this, Porcupine Tree's new album doesn't hit you in the face as super technical, but subtlety under the surface the drums are fracking insane in places, they compliment the music perfectly.

[stubhead]

There's another, somewhat separate idea called "rhythmic displacement" that bands like Meshuggah use a lot - it's more like a new starting point for one rhythm, that crawls though another rhythm. It can just be 3 over 4 or 4 over 3, as is explained in these examples:
Phrasing | Lessons @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

However, it seems to me that this writer has oversimplified the concept of rhythmic displacement, because while it contains those simple kinds of things, it also contains weirder stuff like this:
Welcome to Mel Bay's Bass Sessions® Web Magazine

The second example could actually be said to be in in 31/32 time, which the first writer says is ridiculous - and it is, if you think of it the way he's thinking of it. However, if you see it as it's explained in the second example, the way my mind works it's actually easier to get it.