[Jachop]

I'm kind of confused. This might be a stupid question, or whatever, but here goes. How do I derive triads from the iwato scale (basically a locrian missing the 3rd and the 6th degree)? Obviously, I could go with the locrian triads (dim. maj. min. min. maj. maj. min.)... But say I don't want to do that - What triads do I get without the locrian 3rd and 6th degree?

[josh821]

I think you'd just use the chords you already listed. It's a pentatonic scale so I don't think you can build triads from it. Maybe you could build 5ths from it or something and just randomly fill in the 3rd however you want. Consider the standard major and minor pentatonic scales, you play chords built from triads under those but they certainly don't have all the notes to build all the triads we tend to play under them, you're just using chords built from the 7 note scales that those pentatonic scales are derived from.

[Jachop]

Ok, thanks a lot for clearing that up for me!

[DDDorian]

I asked myself this same question a while back... I came to the realisation that while the Japanese pentatonics might well be condensed versions of some standard diatonic scales, it's more the wide intervals than the notes that give these scales their flavour.

In order to come up with chords/progressions that reflect the sounds of oriental pentatonics, it helps to take the uniqe structure of the scale into account. For instance, the one you mentioned, Iwato, in the key of A, would be spelled:

A Bb D Eb G
1 b2 4 b5 b7

which, as you mentioned, has no third, meaning that building conventional triads seems tough. However, you can take the quartal harmony approach. which basically means you build chords by stacking fourths rather than thirds; it's something you hear a lot in more modern jazz and fusion playing. Iwato is actually a great scale to create progressions from as the note choices give you a lot of freedom. For instance, when I see that scale my instinct in regards to constructing a chord would be to use the root (A) and fourth (D), skip the seventh (G) and add the b5 (Eb) an octave up; with no third or seventh to suggest a major/minor tonality you're free to play lines that slither in and out, dripping major/minor guide tones at will. Similarly, because the chord does not establish either a minor or a major tonality, the b5 (Eb) can function as a #4/11 if you slip into a major phrase, which sounds hip and not at all like a fuck-up The b2 is a note I'd save for licks/melodies rather than chord tones, but that's merely preference.

So, that's one approach. Really, though, the beauty of oriental pentatonics is that if you play a "wrong" note it's just one exotic bend away from a right note, heh. Hope this helps!

[Jachop]

Oh, that's an interesting approach! Coooool!

That helped a lot actually. Some e-rep coming your way dude.

[Apophis]

I don't know do you know this site, but check for more
Scaleopia - 5 Note Scales

[Jachop]

Although not really what I asked for, that site seems pretty damn useful. Thanks!

[bostjan]

You can also use enharmonic equivalents if you want to strictly stick to the scale. This only works on guitar, and is not theoretically the correct method, but it generates a lot of practical uses.

A is your root.

Bb is your minor second, could also be A#.

D is the fourth, could also be an augmented third at Cx.

Eb is the diminished fifth, could also be Fbb or D#.

G is the dominant seventh, could also be an Fx or Abb.

The A triad is A dim aug 3.
Bb dim 5
D alt 3
Eb dim 5
G min

[Jachop]

I'm sorry, I don't get it.

Wouldn't (for example) the A dim aug 3 be using the third of the locrian mode or is it merely the name confusing me? Oh wait a minute!!

For example, a voicing of the A dim aug 3 chord could look like this:

d |---0--|
a |---6--|
E |---5--|

Correct?

So what enharmonic equivalents does is basically giving me a name for (some of the possible) triads?

[bostjan]

Yeah, pretty much.

Again, what everyone else suggested, the best thing to do is use triads you like from the locrian scale, but if you have to be a stickler, there is no third in the Iwato scale, so you cannot have triads.

I thought that by using enharmonic equivalents, you could fudge some triads out that are strict on the guitar, because the guitar is equally tempered.