[distressed_romeo]

Originally Posted by psyphre

One helps reinforce the other.

What he said. In my experience it's better to think of economy picking as an extension of good alternate picking technique than a technique unto itself.

[Jongpil Yun]

I'm a strict economy picker. I never saw the point of alternate picking, at all.

[JBroll]

I used to think that way, but then I found that there was a serious volume limitation that kept you below a certain 'smack' threshold before you went from proper economy picking to separated downstrokes - which completely defeated the purpose. It's not nearly as easy to pull off good economy picking on an acoustic with heavy strings, alternate picking can be as fast as anyone needs for anything but one note per string arpeggios over five or six strings (listen to Steve Morse if you don't believe me), and often even that, and there's much more dynamic control.

Jeff

[distressed_romeo]

Originally Posted by JBroll

I used to think that way, but then I found that there was a serious volume limitation that kept you below a certain 'smack' threshold before you went from proper economy picking to separated downstrokes - which completely defeated the purpose. It's not nearly as easy to pull off good economy picking on an acoustic with heavy strings, alternate picking can be as fast as anyone needs for anything but one note per string arpeggios over five or six strings (listen to Steve Morse if you don't believe me), and often even that, and there's much more dynamic control.

Jeff

Funny, I've found the complete reverse. Everyone's hand are built differently, so it's only natural that some people will favour one style over the other. Just because one works, doesn't mean the other doesn't as well.

[Aghorasilat]

Originally Posted by Gilbucci

You would practice Economy picking and alternate picking? Why is that? I always thought it was one or the other.

Why limit yourself? Both have different applications on the guitar.

[Aghorasilat]

Originally Posted by psyphre

One helps reinforce the other.

VERY TRUE!

[JBroll]

Originally Posted by distressed_romeo

Funny, I've found the complete reverse. Everyone's hand are built differently, so it's only natural that some people will favour one style over the other. Just because one works, doesn't mean the other doesn't as well.

No, how can you physically avoid the limitation of your picking hand going *too* far after a loud snap and completely destroying the timing of your playing? I'm not saying economy picking doesn't work at all, I'm saying that you have more dynamic range because after every stroke you 'turn around' and come back the other way, rather than depending on continuous movement.

Jeff

[distressed_romeo]

Originally Posted by JBroll

No, how can you physically avoid the limitation of your picking hand going *too* far after a loud snap and completely destroying the timing of your playing? I'm not saying economy picking doesn't work at all, I'm saying that you have more dynamic range because after every stroke you 'turn around' and come back the other way, rather than depending on continuous movement.

Jeff

Practice. It doesn't happen immediately, but it's perfectly do-able.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by psyphre

Possibly the best synopsis of picking techniques on the web.

It's funny that you mentioned Nile, as Karl and Dallas has totally different picking styles (Karl using circle picking, and Dallas using Standard style variation 2), yet achieve the same velocity, albeit with wildly different efficiencies (Dallas's picking hand is a blur, Karl's hand barely moves).

Picking, like tone, is a very personal thing, what works (or is taught) by one may not necessary work with another, so it really does pay to experiment, as your body will definitely give you clues as to what works and what doesn't.

I remember reading that the last time you posted it here.

It's an EXCELLENT article, but with one caveat - Tuck's a brilliant jazz player, and a very technically accomplished guitarist in his own right, but part of what needs to be understood here is that this article is accordingly not without context. The George Benson style of picking he advocates was developed by a jazz player, and is being championed by a jazz player. It may be a very efficient way of picking, and it's certainly something worth experimenting with, but tonally the tonal benefits he mentions may not be entirely appropriate for, say, an explosive blues solo or a wooly, high-gain shred tone. Still, it gets you thinking about the mechanics of your picking, which is really the ultimate gain here.

And with that in mind, I can't believe I'm abotu to be the first person here to recomment "Speed Mechanics for Lead Guitar." It's a very comprehensive look at the physical act of playing guitar and focuses on building speed through eliminating restrictions to movement (efficiency, not muscle), and as such is a steal at it's $20 cover price. It may not be life-altering, but it's worth owning.

Santi's dead on, aside from that - relaxing is the best thing you can do for your picking technique.

Finally, speed's overrated - I love Rusty cooley and all, but more often than not the most interesting players I hear are rarely the fastest. Get your phrasing down, and no one will notice how fast your 16th note runs are.


On economy vs. alternate, I'm an alternate picker, myself. I used to be an economy picker, but a guy I was taking lessons from in college, after much cajoling, finally convinced me to give it a shot again, as the picking mechanic sort of serves as its own built-in metronome that helps you lock into a groove for faster picked runs. turns out, he was right.

There's definitely a gain be be had from practicing both, because they definitely steer you towards two different types of phrasing and have two subtly different sounds to them (alternate is very machine gun, economy is a little mroe fluid and legato), but if I had to choose one, and more importantly if I had to recommend one to a beginner to START with, I'd recommend alternate.

[distressed_romeo]

Originally Posted by Drew

I remember reading that the last time you posted it here.

It's an EXCELLENT article, but with one caveat - Tuck's a brilliant jazz player, and a very technically accomplished guitarist in his own right, but part of what needs to be understood here is that this article is accordingly not without context. The George Benson style of picking he advocates was developed by a jazz player, and is being championed by a jazz player. It may be a very efficient way of picking, and it's certainly something worth experimenting with, but tonally the tonal benefits he mentions may not be entirely appropriate for, say, an explosive blues solo or a wooly, high-gain shred tone. Still, it gets you thinking about the mechanics of your picking, which is really the ultimate gain here.

And with that in mind, I can't believe I'm abotu to be the first person here to recomment "Speed Mechanics for Lead Guitar." It's a very comprehensive look at the physical act of playing guitar and focuses on building speed through eliminating restrictions to movement (efficiency, not muscle), and as such is a steal at it's $20 cover price. It may not be life-altering, but it's worth owning.

Santi's dead on, aside from that - relaxing is the best thing you can do for your picking technique.

Finally, speed's overrated - I love Rusty cooley and all, but more often than not the most interesting players I hear are rarely the fastest. Get your phrasing down, and no one will notice how fast your 16th note runs are.


On economy vs. alternate, I'm an alternate picker, myself. I used to be an economy picker, but a guy I was taking lessons from in college, after much cajoling, finally convinced me to give it a shot again, as the picking mechanic sort of serves as its own built-in metronome that helps you lock into a groove for faster picked runs. turns out, he was right.

There's definitely a gain be be had from practicing both, because they definitely steer you towards two different types of phrasing and have two subtly different sounds to them (alternate is very machine gun, economy is a little mroe fluid and legato), but if I had to choose one, and more importantly if I had to recommend one to a beginner to START with, I'd recommend alternate.

Agree with everything here.

Incidentally, the Benson style is virtually identical to Shawn Lane's picking technique, so it's clearly pretty versatile. I've tried angling the pick that way, but for me it made sweeping virtually impossible, although cross-picking got a little easier, so I've stuck with my regular pick grip.

Drew, I'm suprised that you haven't noticed I end up recommending 'Speed Mechanics...' in every other thread on this section of the boards (that and 'Creative Guitar')...

You're right about the tonal aspect, but even that can vary from player to player. For instance, Chris Poland is primarily an alternate picker, yet his playing still sounds extremely legato. Conversely, Tom Hess is all strict economy picking, yet he's still capable of peeling off some pretty aggressive sounding runs.