Stuck on "Djenting"

[rchrd_le]

Exactly what the title implies.

I've been playing guitar for about 4 years now (self taught). I started out with a 6 string and played basic songs and use almost all the strings all the time. I sold that guitar about a year ago and got an Agile 7.

I discovered Djent and started learning a lot of the songs. I'm in a band right now and we are going for the Djent sound, but I can't fight the urge to use the heavy 7 string a lot of the time. I can't write riffs that don't incorporate the 7th string. Any help on using a seven string to it full extend instead of doing breakdowns 24/7?

Is it possible to break this habit with a 7 string guitar? Thanks guys. Also, if there's already a topic like this on here, some links would help. Tanks

[Pooluke41]

Don'tr write with the seventh string for a bit,

If you have Guitar Pro or something like that. Don't use the seventh string.

[rchrd_le]

Are there any chords or scales that'll still give you the Djent feel?

[Thep]

listen to real death metal?

[The Reverend]

Just stop djenting, maybe?

[celticelk]

Originally Posted by rchrd_le

Are there any chords or scales that'll still give you the Djent feel?

Non-metal player here, so pardon my ignorance: I thought that "djent" referred to a guitar tone, or if you're being slightly more expansive, to heavily Meshuggah-influenced syncopated/polymetric metal using that tone. There's nothing in either of those definitions referring to chords or scales.

With regard to your original question: if there's some reason that you need to stop writing/playing "djenty" material, then the first thing you need to do is stop listening to it. Put something else in your ears: other metal genres, jazz, ambient, whatever. If using the seventh string is becoming an OCD problem, play a six-string exclusively for a while. Learn some non-djent songs. Compose solos that only use one string. Do *anything* other than the thing you're trying not to do.

[AntoAchilles]

I had a similar issue a few months back. I simply picked up my 6 string and started writing on that. Since then I've written a good 4 songs without any use of my 7 string which sound nothing like what I had previously been writing.

I often get stuck in a rut of writing samey shit. I find that just messing around on the high E/G strings can get a few new ideas floating around, regardless of if I'm playing a 6 or 7 string.

[Isan]

buttersnips

[SchecterWhore]

It sounds like you've made a comfort zone for yourself and refuse to leave it. (Hint: You're going to have to leave it.)

Rather than chugging on the seventh string all of the time, try restricting yourself to the top five strings or so, and only dip down for the low strings if it is necessary. The most important bit is this: use different keys. If you make a conscious effort to branch out to a new tonality every so often, I guarantee that your ideas will sound fresher. This is especially important in metal because everybody sticks in the same key all of the time, even bands that I have a lot of respect for. I was listening to Death's "Human" the other day, and every song is in goddamn D minor. Guess what their tuning is. Durr, D standard.

As for scales and chords, you have to figure out what sounds like what. My suggestion is to force yourself to write with a great variety of scale materials and explore different chord types and voicings, using several strategies in the course of a song. That way, you'll have contrast built into the music and simultaneously be learning about the theory behind the stuff you use.

[rchrd_le]

Thanks guys!

Cloudkicker and instrumental guys like that is why I got a 7 string. I've never really tried learning a song that wasn't "djenty" since I got the thing. Are there any jazz musicians or any other genre of music that uses 7's?

[rchrd_le]

This site kind of breaks down Djent in a different manner. Guitar Lessons, Interviews, News, Reviews, & More | Guitar Messenger – Periphery: Misha Mansoor Masterclass (Part 1)

[The Reverend]

I think the general consensus among djent fans is that it started as a playing technique, then evolved to encompass a distinct (kind of shitty, and I'm a fan) guitar tone, along with fairly complex rhythms.

Anyways, these guys nailed it. Most metal, not just djent, suffers from people chugging along on the low string, be it 6, 7, or 8 string guitars. You can still create radically different songs with that, as there are loads of keys you can play in with just one note, but if it's sort of like a creative hole you've found yourself in, try imposing limits on your playing. When I first came across that idea, I thought it was worthless, but if you restrict yourself to only a few strings, or perhaps a certain key, you'll almost by necessity start doing new, fresh things.

[Dayn]

Try playing on the beat once in a while? I know it's hard; I've been there myself.

[robotsatemygma]

Listen to music, other then "djent", that inspires you. When I was playing anf writing mathcore stuff, I listened to a lot of jazz and indie music.

George Van Eps, Bucky and John Pizzarelli are all 7 string jazz players.

My biggest influence on the 7 string jazz game (when I was playing 7 strings) was this dude... he posted a few lessons and was a premier luthier of 7 string jazz boxes. Helped me a lot.

Jimmy Foster (RIP).
Archtop Guitars & Jazz Guitars : Custom Built 6- & 7-String Guitars (New Orleans) | FosterGuitars.com

[Fiction]

Look at your hand, see how big that index finger is. It can reach the seventh string while you're playing some widdly niddly chords on the higher strings. I was like Damn, I can work out chords which work with the 7th string, to add a bit of a lower punch to it, rather then trying to stretch 5 frets back on the E, or playing a lame not even low or punchy A string. I don't write breakdowns or anything like that, but essentially all my riffs are usually E String+ with the occasional added punch from the B, by extending your index once in a while.

Just don't use the B for breaky-downs., but I wouldn't say don't play 7s for a while. Learn different ways to incorporate the B string, otherwise by the time you go back to 7s you'll just do the same thing.

[Empryrean]

lolDjent? Learn to Thall, noob.

[rchrd_le]

Dissonant Media right?

[SchecterWhore]

Stéphan Forté played a big part in my decision to look into seven string guitars. He almost got me into 27 fret guitars, as well, but those are a bit more difficult to come by.

Adagio - Niflheim


Adagio - The Inner Road


Adagio - Order of Enlil


2:30.

[XIII]

Like a few of the other peeps have said, try listening to other styles and stuff that you wouldnt normally listen too. If you have Spotify and its linked to your FB friends, I guarantee that you will always find something new every time if you have a flick through some of their playlists. Failing that, try LastFM, I discovered a band named Ulver through that, and they are one of the most stunningly amazing sounding bands I have had the pleasure of discovering!

But as for writing, I write on my acoustic when I'm frustrated with the 7 string, its good to change your perception of that amazing 7th string that you now control, I personally dont like the "chuggah chuggah chug" breakdown parts, as they are done a gazillion times over and do nothing for me anymore personally, but thinking lower down and using it to add an extra (lower) dimension to how you would normally write. But yeah, perception is a good thing to try from different angles, I like to use it like salt and pepper, use it to spice things up but too much of it is a bad thing!

What's your bands name btw? And have you got a MySpace or SoundCloud?

\m/,

[Phrygian]

I've got a neat trick: Use your seven as a sixstring! I tune my sevenstring guitar to Drop-D With the seventh being an A. that way i play it like a sixstring, but with the extra low range should i need it. try it!

[ElRay]

Originally Posted by SchecterWhore

It sounds like you've made a comfort zone for yourself and refuse to leave it. (Hint: You're going to have to leave it.)

Old habits die hard. Some semi-stream-of-consciousness ideas:

• Try an alternate tuning - Maybe an open tuning or something favoring 5ths
• Try thinking more "accross" the fretboard and less "up and down". This especially works with tunings that have more 5ths & octaves.
• You said you're in a band, try leaving the rhythm to bass/drums/keyboard and focus on melody for a while
• Listen to other music. Pandora sounds like a good fit. Create a station with a bunch of seed songs in the direction you want to go, and then thumbs-down anything that's too much like what you're trying to move away from and thumbs-up anything that you like that's different.
• Delve into some form of "serialism" (not just 12-tone). Sure you'll encounter many sets of seemingly arbitrary "rules", but they will force you out of your comfort zone. Then you can "dirty-up" what you created with the rules to make it more your style.
• Apply Rush's "Solo building" technique: Alex Lifesong will lay-down four or five tracks of semi-improvisational ideas, then he & Geddy Lee will sit at an editing console and build the solo from the pieces, and then Alex would learn the manufactured solo.
• Take guitar lessons, especially in a different style
• Take drum lessons, so you can learn some "real" rhythm and play internally complex rhythms instead of building complex-sounding rhythms by layering simple rhythms. Think drum solo vs. Taiko group.

Ray

[anthonyferguson]

Listen to some classical music, remind that yourself that chords do exist. Not like your boring chord sheet type shit, actual polyphonic music that's written to sound massive and rhythmic, even though there's no drum kit from hell or bkp. Get out of the idea of writing a 'riff' that's repeated over and over, and think a bit more about a song or piece of music being about a journey from beginning to end with lots of stuff in between with dynamic and tonal interest. You don't need to stay in the same key for an entire song! In fact it's probably a bad idea to do so. Just keep an open mind. Writing/playing doesn't need to be about mimicking a style, or learning someone else's technique. Forge your own path!

[celticelk]

Originally Posted by ElRay

• Apply Rush's "Solo building" technique: Alex Lifesong will lay-down four or five tracks of semi-improvisational ideas, then he & Geddy Lee will sit at an editing console and build the solo from the pieces, and then Alex would learn the manufactured solo.
• Take drum lessons, so you can learn some "real" rhythm and play internally complex rhythms instead of building complex-sounding rhythms by layering simple rhythms. Think drum solo vs. Taiko group.

Follow-up to a couple of Ray's points:

-A neat idea from Steve Tibbetts: lay down a drum track and record a guitar part on Monday. On Tuesday, improvise a new part listening only to the guitar track. On Wednesday, repeat while listening only to Tuesday's track. Continue through Friday. Over the weekend, listen to the whole thing together and in various combinations of tracks, and see if anything interesting emerges. Bonus points for changing instruments on different days, or even keys (play in E on Monday, in A on Tuesday, for example; cycling in fourths or fifths is most likely to produce harmonious results).

-West African drums are as good as Taiko for the layered-rhythm effect, and probably a little easier to find for classes. Doing some hand drumming will also vastly improve your rhythm without requiring you to spend hours building up the independence needed to play even a half-assed groove on kit.

[rchrd_le]

Thanks! All are very good suggestion and Adajio's AMAZING!! @XIII - My band doesn't have a page anymore. It's made from band members from our old band waaay back in the day. We're starting over.

[Danukenator]

Both "Listen to real death metal" and "Stop listening to Djent" is poor advice. Listen to the music you like, but make sure it is diverse enough to give you ideas.

Here are my suggestions:

Learn some covers of non-Djent songs: Something that has always helped me, you take a song you like and learn it. You end up learning a few new tricks that you can add to your collection. For example, this is no small task, try learning Tosin's thumping technique.

Straight up don't use the seventh string: Avoid it, just for a little while. Try using some funky chords in an effort to, like stated before think across the strings.

Don't use a Djent tone: Djent is only really good sounding when you have that high gain, mid-range tone. Without it, it won't be fun to play and you may avoid it.

I'm not a great musician but giving these a shot may help.