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Unread 01-07-2012, 10:46 PM   #1
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How to get my Deathcore compositions more complex, death metal and less metalcore?

Hi, I have a problem
The songs I write really lack in complexity: I use 4/4 the whole time and always repeat the same pattern: riff a, riff a + harmony, riff b, riff b + harmony (etc), breakdown, riff x, riff x + harmony, etc etc. You probably know what I mean. Even chelsea grin is more complex >.>
I don't know how to avoid this. My pieces are kinda too structured, I want to achieve this Death Metal chaos... :c How to do this?
And, second, my riffing sucks and everything sound like carnifex or as blood runs black... I always try to make some Death Metal riffs but always end up on this :/ I try listening to Bloodbath, Abysmal Dawn or even The Faceless and Psycroptic, but, I don't know, I just can't make anything really sick.
Literally everything is patterned and boring.

Hope you guys know what I mean and could help me out.
Thanks!
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Unread 01-07-2012, 10:50 PM   #2
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It's just a matter of time, listen to nothing but death metal and your playing will reflect it. There's nothing wrong with having a -core aspect in your playing if that's what you're into personally.
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Unread 01-07-2012, 10:56 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthdjentstic View Post
It's just a matter of time, listen to nothing but death metal and your playing will reflect it. There's nothing wrong with having a -core aspect in your playing if that's what you're into personally.
Ok I don't mind that -core is something bad, I just want to make some deathcore which is more death metal than metalcore.
Thanks
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Unread 01-07-2012, 11:04 PM   #4
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No problem, I had the same issue when I first got into death metal except with it sounding like Nu-Metal :puke:
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Unread 01-08-2012, 12:36 AM   #5
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learning music theory always helps
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Unread 01-08-2012, 12:52 AM   #6
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learning music theory always helps
what exactly?
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Unread 01-08-2012, 01:31 AM   #7
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what exactly?
It can help you learn the intervals used in X genre of music...like say death metal and minor thirds.
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Unread 01-08-2012, 04:27 AM   #8
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I had that same problem forever (and still do most of the time). The best thing I can suggest is to try variations of your parts. The simplest thing to do is make the drummer play the snare on 3 the first time, then move up to 2/4 the next time. Also try adding more notes (or better yet, removing notes). Try playing the same thing clean. Try playing the chords and let one instrument riff. Variations get rid of the formulaic boredom factor for me. It's really hard because I like to sound prepared and memorizing all of the different way to play something and what order is more work I'm too lazy for that lol
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Unread 01-08-2012, 04:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthdjentstic View Post
It can help you learn the intervals used in X genre of music...like say death metal and minor thirds.
There are no intervals that are specific to one genre. ....ing learn them all, there are only twelve.

Ricci Adams' Musictheory.net

My suggestion is to make extensive use of that website. The lessons take no time at all (and are extremely linear and no-bullshit), the exercises are very good, there is a template for staff paper (don't rely on tab all your life - it's much easier to see relationships on a staff), and best of all, it's completely free. Well, unless you download the Tenuto thing, but I don't imagine that's very expensive. At any rate, learn Roman numeral analysis. The lessons on the website only take you so far, but they lay groundwork that is far more valuable to composition than anything I've ever heard out of a guitar teacher's mouth.

In songwriting, these are my thoughts: use clear forms with lots of sectional contrast, write kickass chord progressions, and use a good number of different keys and tempi. Form is the best thing you can master, as everything else is built within that. Check out some of the gigantic posts I've done in other threads on this stuff.

Form:
Extreme Metal Songwriting Tips
Songwriting Help
Playing a Solo

Meter:
Timing
A Lesson On 5/4 Time, Jazz Music, and Irony - Page 3

Harmony:
Got basic chord questions
chord-scale clarification?(SW?)
Show me some octatonic!
Show me some whole tone!

Texture and counterpoint:
Keyboards in Metal Tips.
String Writing some pointers? oh and also using dim 7ths (SW please?)

Also, this video.




Skype theory lessons. PM me.
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Unread 01-08-2012, 04:59 AM   #10
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You know what I mean, death metal abuses minor thirds
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Unread 01-08-2012, 05:05 AM   #11
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Mr. Big Noodles is pretty damn metal.Mr. Big Noodles is pretty damn metal.Mr. Big Noodles is pretty damn metal.Mr. Big Noodles is pretty damn metal.Mr. Big Noodles is pretty damn metal.Mr. Big Noodles is pretty damn metal.Mr. Big Noodles is pretty damn metal.Mr. Big Noodles is pretty damn metal.
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Also, ear training drinking games are the best.
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Unread 01-08-2012, 05:06 AM   #12
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Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.
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Yea if you could find someone other than yourself to play with.
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Unread 01-08-2012, 05:14 AM   #13
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Finding people that drink is actually a greater challenge for me. It's surprisingly easy to goad music students into interval games.
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Unread 01-08-2012, 05:18 AM   #14
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Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.Stealthdjentstic is so metal, he bleeds rust.
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This is a great idea for the next vancouver sso get together by the way...
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Unread 01-08-2012, 10:54 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augury View Post
what exactly?
schecterwhores post is pretty solid... check out those links he posted...

ive found that pitch class set theory is great for writing more modern sounding music as well... but i would make sure you have a good grasp on tonal music before moving on to that
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Unread 01-08-2012, 09:29 PM   #16
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there is a fine line between complex composition, and utter crap claiming to be 'progressive'. Be careful what you decide to do. The rest has already been coverred really, so that is what I will add.
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Learn some damn music theory, don't complain, and you'll be a better person. -Schecterwhore

Show me a truly awesome guitar for under $1000 and I'll show you hateful lies.
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Unread 01-08-2012, 10:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMyghin View Post
there is a fine line between complex composition, and utter crap claiming to be 'progressive'. Be careful what you decide to do. The rest has already been coverred really, so that is what I will add.
I don't even try, I just want to make some stuff which can't be called "generic deathcore shit"
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Unread 01-08-2012, 10:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
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there is a fine line between complex composition, and utter crap claiming to be 'progressive'. Be careful what you decide to do. The rest has already been coverred really, so that is what I will add.
Straight up, odd time signatures no longer instantly qualify something as progressive.

OP here's a nice slice of progressive death metal.

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Unread 01-09-2012, 06:28 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchecterWhore View Post
Win. I thoroughly enjoyed watching that.

As for the original post, I definitely know where you're coming from, man. Check out some of those links shecterwhore posted. There's also a sick website that helped me out alot called myguitarsolo.com.

Sometimes, you just wanna pick up some new chops/sounds and learning music theory can be very intimidating. Start slow by learning the seven(or just a few to get you started) modes of the major and harmonic minor scales. I had them memorized in a month. That will open your playing up alot. Then, just experiment with different note arrangements within the modes. This should be a good start for you. (Don't forget to use a metronome.)

Once you have those down, move to diminished, which is actually very easy because of how linear it is on the fretboard. Diminished is very fun when playing deathcore/metal/etc because you don't have to stay in a specific tonality or key and adding chromatics makes it even more interesting. Every note on the fretboard in any configuration is game. It's just up to your work ethic, chops, and timing from there.

It sounds like alot but they can become really easy if you just work at 'em.

Here's two links, and I highly suggest browsing around the site. Alot of cool shit there.

Major-happy and melodic

Harmonic-evil and diabolical

Remember, don't practice all the different modes in one position. Seperate them so that they fit into a certain key(as the link exhibits) so that you train your ears to notice their subtle differences. Learning them in one position is boring and hard.

As for breakdowns, always add something to them. Ex: Bands with boring breakdowns play them like this Chugga-chugga-chugga-chugga-chugga-chugg. Bands who notice that this get mad lame after a while will try shit like this chugga-chugga*hammer on*chugga-chugga*short riff*chugg-chugg-*arppegio*. Basically, always add things besides just chugs during your breakdowns and if you're just feeling chugs at the moment try to the best of your ability to create cool sounding(to you) and intricate patterns.

Take all this and experiment with different types of song structures and you'll be on your way, broseph.


Well, sorry for blabbing so damn much. I just noticed that you asked a question I wish someone answered for me when I was younger in my playing and wanted to help out. Good luck with your music, man!
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Unread 01-09-2012, 12:20 PM   #20
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To create variation, know enough theory of what notes you're playing, how they relate to each other as scale degrees, as well as the duration of each note and where the strong beats are. You won't be able to create variation if you don't know what you're varying. Learn to recognise keys by their notes.

A quick way to create variation: take one of your riffs, divide it into logical groups (such as 1:[note chug chug] 2:[note note chug chug] 3:[note note note chug] 4:[note note note] 5:[chug chug chug note] [repeat all]) and reorder the sections so you have so you may instead have 3, 4, 2, 5, 1. It may sound like balls but it may give you an idea for something better.
This basically gives each section a slightly different context, which can be a very important part of keeping things interesting. There are more ways to develop than just more notes/harmony and context is one of them.


Check out my book: "Playing Guitar Musically: A Guide to Creativity on Guitar & Bass"
FREE Sample Chapters Here
Buy the full book here.
PM me if you want to discuss it or just fancy a chat.

I also give lessons over Skype, Bandhappy and within the Lothians.
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