Meshuggah. Advice from Mr.Hagstrom!

Ntbillie · 12-15-2010, 07:53 AM

Okay so I searched the Forum and found alotta People discussing this so I thought I might aswell share this here. Just incase any of You guys havn't seen this.

Basically for Your convenience it's the part from 2:20 onwards. I don't know exactly if He's being modest or if He's trying to 'hide' His secret or something. But every interview I've searched down. They never exactly mention that they use 'Maths' or all that stuff People mention when they talk about Meshuggah. Tomas Haake said they use only 4/4. (No idea what that is..=p I havn't understood the technical parts yet so I can't comment on that) Anyways enjoy! And if anybody out there would be kind enough to explain Me those things I'll be more then grateful!

jymellis · 12-15-2010, 08:01 AM

i have seen that and watched all their vids religiously. i think from all i have gathered. i believe they just play. they dont take the mathmatical and "figuring" things out, approach. i think that is just how their music comes out and other people try to interpret everything they do

Ntbillie · 12-15-2010, 08:11 AM

Haha Yeah I guess some people are just naturally born geniuses..! Mann I just couldn't believe it, I mean I don't know if it's true or not. But they even mentioned that they don't even do Jam sessions together. It's like every member does anything that comes to their mind. Sorta Demo's it. With no particular instrument in mind. Like for example Their Drummer Tomas Haake could record guitars. Or Fredrik doing drums. Stuff like that. and when they meet up to record the album they'll just mash stuff together. See what works with what. And put it together. And then what I fail to understand is. How the ....ing .... do they make those Polyrhythms and Polymeters work. Soo it does make You wonder..

jymellis · 12-15-2010, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ntbillie

And then what I fail to understand is. How the ....ing .... do they make those Polyrhythms and Polymeters work. Soo it does make You wonder..

thats the thing, dont try to understand it. they dont try to make it work. i think they just sit down. one guy says hey i was working on this. and the other guy will say, hey that fits with what i was working on. and they make a song from it. its not all a big process like people make it out to be. but thats my take on it, and everyone here knows im

on the other hand, their writing and "beat break down" is very unique.

Scar Symmetry · 12-15-2010, 09:27 AM

I don't think he's describing it very well but he's basically saying that it comes naturally to them.

SchecterWhore · 12-15-2010, 12:58 PM

0:55 - "Shorter revolution back then. As far as the cycles go."

I'm not much of a Meshuggah fan, nor am I a scholar in their music, but I think that where people get caught up is in thinking that their rhythms are conceived with a specific interrelation, i.e. them saying "Okay, we have our beat, now let's put this 29 figure against a 17 figure against..." What I hear is that they take an approach that's similar to west African polyrhythmic music, whereby the rhythms of the separate parts are completely independent, free of the meter, and their repetition makes for cyclic music that takes disparate ideas and relates them by saying "these will match up on a beat eventually, but not permanently." It's the same sort of thing in Steve Reich's phasing:

The two pianos are playing the same thing, over and over again (with variations after a while), but the tempi are different. The two parts intersect at various times and emphasize different parts of the phrase. You could come up with some formula that expresses some insane metric relationship between the two parts, but it's irrelevant because they are metrically independent parts.

Guitarman700 · 12-15-2010, 01:24 PM

OMG, that iceman 8!

Barney · 12-17-2010, 04:14 PM

Ah! That Reich piece is awesome!

JP Universe · 12-17-2010, 07:09 PM

I can't watch this vid at work but I've seen 1 interview where he talks about how the music is natural to them as is doing 4/4 non polyrhythmic stuff is natural to us because of the music that they have grown up on.... With regards to writing I believe that the guitarists demo up some riffs etc and then they work on them as a band

MED · 12-22-2010, 01:11 AM

I agree with JP Universe and SchecterWhore, I doubt Meshuggah has any real idea about how the phase will feel rhythmically (in terms of time signatures and whatnot) and it seems like their drummer just puts everything in 4 to give the phrase some semblance of a groove without sacrificing the heavier aspects of their sound.

gr8Har V · 12-22-2010, 06:15 PM

i believe it comes to them naturally. they probably improvise rythyms and record them and choose what sounds good. numbers do play a big role though. for example they use a lot of "3's" in their riffs. like the bass drum and guitar will play a riff where it repeats after 3 variations, instead of one or two to give it a polyrhythmic feel, so the 3rd varioation will start when the second measure starts, and the riff will repeat for the first time halfway through the next measure. if you listen to Pravus, the accented notes go 1, 1-2, 1, 1-2-3, 1, 1-2, 1-2-3-4 and repeats. or pineal gland optics at the end, it just goes 1, 1-2, 1, 1-2-3, 1 and repeats

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12-15-2010, 07:53 AM	#1
Ntbillie ss.org Regular Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Int Posts: 121 Thanked: 14 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Meshuggah. Advice from Mr.Hagstrom! Okay so I searched the Forum and found alotta People discussing this so I thought I might aswell share this here. Just incase any of You guys havn't seen this. Basically for Your convenience it's the part from 2:20 onwards. I don't know exactly if He's being modest or if He's trying to 'hide' His secret or something. But every interview I've searched down. They never exactly mention that they use 'Maths' or all that stuff People mention when they talk about Meshuggah. Tomas Haake said they use only 4/4. (No idea what that is..=p I havn't understood the technical parts yet so I can't comment on that) Anyways enjoy! And if anybody out there would be kind enough to explain Me those things I'll be more then grateful!

12-15-2010, 09:27 AM	#5
Scar Symmetry Ex Whiny Bitch Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 15,686 Thanked: 377 Feedback Score: 3 reviews	I don't think he's describing it very well but he's basically saying that it comes naturally to them. Ever noticed how some people are real dicks on the internet, but when they post something involving their band, they make the effort to be nice? Funny that...

12-15-2010, 12:58 PM	#6
SchecterWhore Theory God Join Date: May 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 4,184 Thanked: 67 Feedback Score: 5 reviews	0:55 - "Shorter revolution back then. As far as the cycles go." I'm not much of a Meshuggah fan, nor am I a scholar in their music, but I think that where people get caught up is in thinking that their rhythms are conceived with a specific interrelation, i.e. them saying "Okay, we have our beat, now let's put this 29 figure against a 17 figure against..." What I hear is that they take an approach that's similar to west African polyrhythmic music, whereby the rhythms of the separate parts are completely independent, free of the meter, and their repetition makes for cyclic music that takes disparate ideas and relates them by saying "these will match up on a beat eventually, but not permanently." It's the same sort of thing in Steve Reich's phasing: The two pianos are playing the same thing, over and over again (with variations after a while), but the tempi are different. The two parts intersect at various times and emphasize different parts of the phrase. You could come up with some formula that expresses some insane metric relationship between the two parts, but it's irrelevant because they are metrically independent parts. Skype theory lessons. PM me.

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12-15-2010, 08:01 AM	#2
jymellis Talk To DeWalt Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: sinsi ohio Posts: 9,198 Thanked: 88 Feedback Score: 4 reviews	i have seen that and watched all their vids religiously. i think from all i have gathered. i believe they just play. they dont take the mathmatical and "figuring" things out, approach. i think that is just how their music comes out and other people try to interpret everything they do

12-15-2010, 08:11 AM	#3
Ntbillie ss.org Regular Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Int Posts: 121 Thanked: 14 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Haha Yeah I guess some people are just naturally born geniuses..! Mann I just couldn't believe it, I mean I don't know if it's true or not. But they even mentioned that they don't even do Jam sessions together. It's like every member does anything that comes to their mind. Sorta Demo's it. With no particular instrument in mind. Like for example Their Drummer Tomas Haake could record guitars. Or Fredrik doing drums. Stuff like that. and when they meet up to record the album they'll just mash stuff together. See what works with what. And put it together. And then what I fail to understand is. How the ....ing .... do they make those Polyrhythms and Polymeters work. Soo it does make You wonder..

12-15-2010, 01:24 PM	#7
Guitarman700 SS.org Regular Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Traverse City, MI Posts: 4,842 Thanked: 22 Feedback Score: 13 reviews	OMG, that iceman 8!

12-17-2010, 04:14 PM	#8
Barney SS.org Regular Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: BP Posts: 141 Thanked: 2 / 1 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Ah! That Reich piece is awesome!

12-17-2010, 07:09 PM	#9
JP Universe Giggity Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Down Under Posts: 1,805 Thanked: 56 Feedback Score: 4 reviews	I can't watch this vid at work but I've seen 1 interview where he talks about how the music is natural to them as is doing 4/4 non polyrhythmic stuff is natural to us because of the music that they have grown up on.... With regards to writing I believe that the guitarists demo up some riffs etc and then they work on them as a band

12-22-2010, 01:11 AM	#10
MED ss.org Regular Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 96 Thanked: 27 / 1 Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I agree with JP Universe and SchecterWhore, I doubt Meshuggah has any real idea about how the phase will feel rhythmically (in terms of time signatures and whatnot) and it seems like their drummer just puts everything in 4 to give the phrase some semblance of a groove without sacrificing the heavier aspects of their sound.

12-22-2010, 06:15 PM	#11
gr8Har V diminishit Join Date: May 2010 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 109 Thanked: 0 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i believe it comes to them naturally. they probably improvise rythyms and record them and choose what sounds good. numbers do play a big role though. for example they use a lot of "3's" in their riffs. like the bass drum and guitar will play a riff where it repeats after 3 variations, instead of one or two to give it a polyrhythmic feel, so the 3rd varioation will start when the second measure starts, and the riff will repeat for the first time halfway through the next measure. if you listen to Pravus, the accented notes go 1, 1-2, 1, 1-2-3, 1, 1-2, 1-2-3-4 and repeats. or pineal gland optics at the end, it just goes 1, 1-2, 1, 1-2-3, 1 and repeats