[Kane]

I've been playing the guitar for about 16 years, Death Metal for about 15. I'm completely self taught, and while I've been playing leads to go along with my rythm for nearly the whole time I've been playing, I've never really learned the "proper" scales and modes and what not. For the last few years I've been studying off and on from a series of books known as the Guitar Grimoire. These books contain just about every different type of chord, scale, or mode you can think of, along with a vast amount of other stuff. What I am interested to know is how I should go about learning and practicing. In talking to a guitar shop owner, it was suggested that I learn a few modes, rather than try to learn them all, and become good with those.

This is how I've been teaching myself so far: Say I'm playing a major scale, Dorian mode in the key of E. I have 2 ways I can go from there, I can learn Dorian mode in each key, and work my way up the fretboard that way. Or, as I have been doing, I can work my way up the fretboard by going through the modes. I like the way this sounds, but am I making it too hard for myself by learning all the finger placings for each mode in each key? If my explanation confuses you it is because I, myself, am confused. Could use the tutelage of some real shredders here, thanks.

By the way, I can hit most of the modes pretty clean at 500bpm, though I can go much faster freestyle. To learn the modes, I use the metronome at 250bm, then run through at half time when i feel comfortable enough with it.

[Drew]

1.) I'm drunk

2.) 500 bpm = absurd at 16th notes. hell, 250+ at 16ths is like rusty cooley speed. You're talking like quarters, right?

3.) Playing lead, re: modes... think less about modes, think more abou8t how "modes" relate to the ionian scale. I.E - locrean in B is C major. So, learn your major scales all over the neck, and just learn how ever mode you want to play applies to any given scale, and learn how to start any given scale from any given scale degree - i.e, in this instance, learn how to play major from the maj7 to the maj7. modes are just inversions of supposedly more "basic" scales, so if you know one, you can 'know" them all with only minimal re-orientation."

Sorry if this is either confusiong or condescending or just dumb, I may have had a rather lot to drinkk tonight.

[Kane]

yes, it is confusing, but thanks nonetheless. From what I understand, there is really only the Major scale. The different modes come into play by starting at a different interval in the scale. Is this not so?

As for the speed. The metronome tops out at 250bpm, so I have just been hitting two notes per click. I figured that was 500bpm, is it not? I've never learned all the technical stuff, being a "play by ear" kind of player.

[Drew]

2 notes per click @ 250 = 8th notes at 250 = 16ths at 125. each click is a quarter.

Explanation of the drunken ramblings above somwetime tomorrow.

[Kane]

hehe ok.

I think I get it now.

So the 4 clicks represent a measure, doubling them would be 8ths, quadrupling them would be 16th's and so on. Okie doke, thanks.

[BCrowell]

As far as modes go I agree with Drew. Another viewpoint is to recognize WHAT CHARACTERISTIC notes make the mode, and remember that, then warp the Ionian mode acordingly. If someone says E Dorian, I can either remember A)Is the same as D Ionian, or B minor, and play within those scale forms, or B)Rember that the characteristic notes are the b3rd & b7th and mod the major form by just flatting those notes while playing.

I find the later much more helpfull, in that I no longer have to recal shapes or forms, simply take the major form and flat/raise the appropriate notes.

If someone says D Lydian...I think #4th, and thus I take the D major form and raise the 4th one fret.

This is also helpful in that if you want to keep the tonal center of the mode, you need to know these characteristic notes, and often rest on them.

[ajdehoogh]

Originally Posted by Drew

1.) I'm drunk

I appoligize prior if this is wrong but I just gotta say something.

This is pretty funny. I just had to point this out. You know your are faded when you say up front that you are drunk. BTW Drew, right there with you!! Hope you don't get so drunk that you do this: :puke:in the morning. Hope you have a good night.

[Drew]

hahaha, well, I wasn't TOTALLY wreaked (managed to pick up and get a number from some girl on the T ride back to the train station I leave Boston from, although as I gathered it had less to do with my innate charm and suaveness than the fact it was Park Street at about 10:30 and she was relieved to see someone wearing a shirt with a collar on it ), but I was to the point where I knew an explaination could get a little hazy.

So, let's try to explain again... Modes... Um, a lot of people not familar with the concept of modes seem to think that a mode is somehow fundamentally different from scales most people are already familar with (generally, major and minor diatonic, plus pentatonic). This isn't really the case - for example, take the G major scale below:

|-------------------------------------7-8-10-8-7--------
|------------------------------7-8-10------------10-8-7-
|--------------------------7-9--------------------------
|--------------------7-9-10-----------------------------
|-------------7-9-10------------------------------------
|------7-8-10-------------------------------------------
|-8-10-------------------------------------------------- etc.

G major, right? Ok, but now play it from the second note, A to A. You're now playing a diatonic scale with, relative to the starting pitch, a b3 and a natural 6th. That's Dorian. Now play it off the 3rd pitch, B to B - this gives you the Phrygian. C to C gives you the Lydian, D to D the Mixolydian, E to E the Aeolean, and F# to F# the Locrean. so, really, since it's all the same scale just played relative to different scale degrees, does it REALLY make sense to memorize every mode all the way up and down the neck in every key? Personally, I'd focus on learning the major scale all over the neck, and then learn how to apply that to different tonalities. I hope this makes more sense with a mild hangover than with a good number of beers still in me.

By the way, a cool metronome application - YMetronome, which I think is still downloadable here: http://www.raleighmusicacademy.com/links.html - this one allows you to go WAY above 250, and set subdivisions - 8ths, 16ths, triplets, 5 clicks per beat, whatever. Give it a look.

-D

[Kane]

Ok, cool, thanks. It makes sense to me, I just have all this information within these books, but not real explanation about how to put it into practice. =)

[Vince]

Originally Posted by Drew

3.) Playing lead, re: modes... think less about modes, think more abou8t how "modes" relate to the ionian scale. I.E - locrean in B is C major.

Good idea, only substitute Ionian for Aeolean

How much death metal is in a major key, Drew?