[Chris]

Originally Posted by Drew

Suck me, tubby-butt.

wtf, my cheeks are NOT tubby!

[The Dark Wolf]

Originally Posted by Chris

Well, since men who can channel vs women who can channel is like.. The foundation of the storyline, it makes sense that it carries through the book.

I don't know how you can call characters like Mat, Avhienda, Lan (though he kind of pussies out halfway through) and Rand one dimensional. To each their own I guess. You clearly lack the immense intellectual capacity that I have to keep up with Jordan's ever-evolving plotlines.

(fuck, I just sounded like Drew)

Denial of Neg denied.

Denial of neg reinstated. I clearly have good taste.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot invested in the characters, and care about them. I've read (parts, since it's over 15 years in the making!!!) the series a good 10 times or more.

Seriously. Nyneave argues with Lan.

Min, Elayne, and Aviendha argue with Rand.

Faile argues fucking CONSTANTLY with Perrin.

Mat argues with Tuon, plus every other girl to come along. Light! Women!

Blood and bloody ashes! It gets old. As one of this series' biggest fans, I find much at fault with it, even though I adore it. The problem is, it becomes patently unbelievable. A certain suspension of belief is required to immerse yourself in a story. When every other paragraph I find myself thinking, Who would actually constantly DO that? then clearly, a problem is arising, even if I'm generally enjoying the story.

Eddings is even worse in some ways.

Martin's characters always keep me guessing. Believe me Drew, Sansa comes to a new realization. But time is the telling factor. BTW, what's up with saying Jon dies? He doesn't die. Did you mean Ned? And, as much as I liked the DT series, I like ASOIAF more. Quite a bit, actually. My favorite series, followed only by Tad William's 'Otherland', and the Mars Trilogy, by Kim Stanley Robinson.

You wanna read good characters? Read Robin Hobb. She is fucking brilliant. The plot isn't as mmm... interesting, or as developed as Jordan and the like. But her prose is pretty delectable, and her characters, especially her protagonists, are terrific.

[Drew]

Um, fuck. Robb, not Jon. but yeah, Ned wasn't really a shock either - part of it was you'd prepared me for the expectation of the unexpected, but between Ned and Jon getting to know each other on the Wall as something other than the bastard child of the other and the implications of that, or the 13-year-old brat simply saying "off with his head!" I figured the later was a safe bet.

Anyway, we're just involved in some serious ball-busting here. You want fucked up plot twists? Grab Thomas Pynchon's "Gravity's Rainbow." You want deep characters? Try Charles Johnson's "Oxherding Tale." You want a good yarn where people cut off each other's head, fight undead, and blow shit up? Grab any of these.

[The Dark Wolf]

Originally Posted by Drew

Anyway, we're just involved in some serious ball-busting here.

Disclaimers are unnecessary, cock monkey! I have you and Chris' number, beotches.

Thanks for the heads up on the reads. After I check out this Necroscope stuff, and TRY to cram that Infinite Joke down my gullet, I'll give 'em a whirl.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by The Dark Wolf

Disclaimers are unnecessary, cock monkey! I have you and Chris' number, beothes.

Thanks fot eh ehads up on the reads. After I check out this Necroscope stuff, and TRY to cram that Infinite Joke down my gullet, I'll give 'em a whirl.

Book one of Necroscope is by far the best, btw. It takes a little to get going, but once the story takes off it's such a unique twist on the same old vampire plot it just rocks.

I read the first 100 or so pages the first night and put it down half-interested. The second night, I read the remaining 500 or so. I just couldn't put it down.

[Chris]

Faile argues fucking CONSTANTLY with Perrin.

Without drudging it on, I've wanted Faile to die all along.

Mat rules though. Don't be hatin' on my gamblin', drinkin' bretheren.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Drew

Um, fuck. Robb, not Jon. but yeah, Ned wasn't really a shock either - part of it was you'd prepared me for the expectation of the unexpected, but between Ned and Jon getting to know each other on the Wall as something other than the bastard child of the other and the implications of that, or the 13-year-old brat simply saying "off with his head!" I figured the later was a safe bet.

Anyway, we're just involved in some serious ball-busting here. You want fucked up plot twists? Grab Thomas Pynchon's "Gravity's Rainbow." You want deep characters? Try Charles Johnson's "Oxherding Tale." You want a good yarn where people cut off each other's head, fight undead, and blow shit up? Grab any of these.

You can shove all of those recommendations up your ass until you read Dark Tower.

[The Dark Wolf]

Originally Posted by Chris

Without drudging it on, I've wanted Faile to die all along.

Mat rules though. Don't be hatin' on my gamblin', drinkin' bretheren.

Mat and Perrin (my personal favorite. Minus his pussy-whippedness, he's 90% me), and probably Thom, make the series for me. And maybe Loial. Without those characters, though, man, the series would fall pretty flat.

You shall read book 11. It owns the last 5 or 6 (!) handily, like Rand owning a Forsaken. Mucho plot development, and Mat's storyline with Tuon (minus the constant one-upmanship *sigh* ) is very rewarding.

[Drew]

Um, if you don't like Infinite Jest, you probably won't like Gravity's Rainbow. I'll post up a proper "Why this is one of the greatest works of art I've ever seen" thread in a day or two (I'm re-reading it now), but I just finished a chapter consisting of a series of vinegrettes based on the phrase "no, you never did the Kenosha Kid?" where between context and punctuation, Pynchon ends each with those same seven words, but they mean a very different thing each time - ostentaciously, what we're seeing is psychological experiments being done on the main (well, primary, at least) character Lt. Tyrone Slothrop, an american solder stationed in London during WWII, when British intelligence discovers a map he's been keeping of his sexual conquests in the city of London in his cubicle corresponds exactly to a map of V2 rocket strikes on the city, with a mean lag of 4 1/2 days between sexual act and rocket strike.

That's where it starts, anyway - it gets progressively WAY more fucked up from there. The Johnson novel, on the other hand, is just an awesome read - accessable, intelligent but not obnoxious, conversational in tone but still incredibly moving, and quite funny in places. Besides, The Soulcatcher is bar-none the greatest villian in American literature, as far as I'm concerned, and right up there with "Crime and Punishment's" Svidrigalov if we're to go international.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by The Dark Wolf

Mat and Perrin (my personal favorite. Minus his pussy-whippedness, he's 90% me), and probably Thom, make the series for me. And maybe Loial. Without those characters, though, man, the series would fall pretty flat.

You shall read book 11. It owns the last 5 or 6 (!) handily, like Rand owning a Forsaken. Mucho plot development, and Mat's storyline with Tuon (minus the constant one-upmanship *sigh* ) is very rewarding.

Yeah so I hear. I own it, tried reading it, just couldn't catch back up. I'll read the first 5 again just because they totally fucking kick ass, but I'll do what I can to skim at least parts of 6-9.

I don't remember exactly what book it's in, but the first time the Asha'Men show up in force and fucking rape everyone with Mazrim leading them to rescue Rand is some goddamn epic shit. I reread that entire battle scene about 15 times.