Why no 6 string fanned fret?

ugly_guitar_guy · 06-01-2012, 01:19 PM

Hey guys,

So as I've been plotting out my next guitar build, I've been trying to consider what my guitar "needs" may be. My band tends to use several different tunings (Standard, Drop D, and Drop C#), and I like to noodle around with Drop C (CGCFAD) a lot, but I don't have a guitar that really hold those drop tunings well because of the tension differences from tuning to tuning. It seems to me that a fanned fret guitar that was 25" or 25.5" on the high strings, to a higher tension 27" scale on the low strings would account for this quite nicely and make for a guitar that likes to be used in low tunings.

The funny thing to me is that it seems like nobody does this. Fanned frets are usually reserved for 7+ strings, even though to me it makes sense for a 6 string too. So what's keeping people from doing it?

Razzy · 06-01-2012, 01:24 PM

You're still going to end up with a large difference in tension between those tunings, no matter what scale length you're using. The reason some ERG's have fanned frets is because of the huge range that they have.

With a 6-string, it's not nearly as much of an issue, and personally, I don't really see the point of a fanned fret 6-string unless you're wanting to tune in full fifths or something.

Why not just get a second guitar for the lower tunings and put thicker strings on it?

scherzo1928 · 06-01-2012, 01:27 PM

There are a bunch of fanned 6s out there, but they aren't very common. It would be sweet to see more of them though.

I actually have a fanned 5 stringer on my list, which I'll be tuning in fifths.

Konfyouzd · 06-01-2012, 01:31 PM

Rondo will build you one.

mwcarl · 06-01-2012, 02:12 PM

Hopefully when I get some time, I'll be posting my current work on a 25"-26" fanned 6. Never played or built a multiscale guitar before, so I'm not sure I'll like that kind of guitar, but I'm giving it a shot.

It's being done, but it seems to me that generally people are building 7's and 8's here anyway, so it's not too surprising that there are also more fanned 7's and 8's as well.

espman · 06-01-2012, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwcarl

Hopefully when I get some time, I'll be posting my current work on a 25"-26" fanned 6. Never played or built a multiscale guitar before, so I'm not sure I'll like that kind of guitar, but I'm giving it a shot.

It's being done, but it seems to me that generally people are building 7's and 8's here anyway, so it's not too surprising that there are also more fanned 7's and 8's as well.

Must be a Calgary thing

The build I'm tinkering away at right now is a 6 as well, don't have the bridge yet so I just may join you on giving multi-scale a go

vansinn · 06-01-2012, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scherzo1928

There are a bunch of fanned 6s out there, but they aren't very common. It would be sweet to see more of them though.

I actually have a fanned 5 stringer on my list, which I'll be tuning in fifths.

I agree that 5th tunings would be a major, and to me likely the only, reason for a fanned 6'er.
Now, a 5th tuned five string guitar doesn't make much sense to me; a 5th tuned fanned five string bass, onth eother hand, definately would

elq · 06-01-2012, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scherzo1928

There are a bunch of fanned 6s out there, but they aren't very common. It would be sweet to see more of them though.

I actually have a fanned 5 stringer on my list, which I'll be tuning in fifths.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vansinn

I agree that 5th tunings would be a major, and to me likely the only, reason for a fanned 6'er.
Now, a 5th tuned five string guitar doesn't make much sense to me; a 5th tuned fanned five string bass, onth eother hand, definately would

that's why I have a fanned 6 string Oni for 5ths tuning in the works.

MetalDaze · 06-01-2012, 05:18 PM

MetalDaze · 06-01-2012, 05:19 PM

Even one for lefties

scherzo1928 · 06-01-2012, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elq

that's why I have a fanned 6 string Oni for 5ths tuning in the works.

I think I speak for everyone when I say I'd like to hear some more about this.

elq · 06-01-2012, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scherzo1928

I think I speak for everyone when I say I'd like to hear some more about this.

Not much to say now, there are a lot of other guitars ahead of this one. But my requirements are -

Lefty
I want to use a high tuning, so C-G-d-a-e-b (or perhaps a step down if high b isn't workable)

Dan has free reign on everything else.

capoeiraesp · 06-02-2012, 12:19 AM

Multiscale 6er owner right here.
Ormsby SX6 Multiscale Custom.

Others

Standard series Multiscale by Ormsby

Necromagnon · 06-02-2012, 02:55 AM

I've tried one at the Montreal Guitar show.
It's not very common on 6 str, because 6 str generally don't need it. If it's done on 7+ strings guitars, it's because lower strings needs higher scale to keep a good tension/definition. On 6 strings, standard scales just work fine for more than 60 years so...
I guess it would be usefull for fifth tuning as said before, or for open tunings, and all those exotic tunings where lower strings are tuning much lower (compared to standard tuning) than higher strings. There, I think it should be really usefull.

But if it's just for fun, because it looks nice, because you like to play on fanned fret or anything, I agree!

ElRay · 06-02-2012, 04:32 AM

It's definitely plausible/beneficial for any "wide tuning" (Fifths, Low C, etc.), but there's another reason: If you're more of a Fingerpicking, "self accompanying", etc. player (ala Mark Knopfler, Jeff Beck, etc.) you may actually want the tonal differences of "baritone" strings in the bass and "short scale" strings in the trebles.

Check-out the: Koll RE 7 / 6 (24-5/8" to 26")

It's pretty much intended to be a Jazz-box, but there's no reason the intent can't be applied to any style guitar, if it fits your playing style and budget.

Ray

Metal_Webb · 06-02-2012, 05:22 AM

Just curious, but what gauge strings do you use when tuning to Drop C? I use a 0.056 on a 25.5" of mine in Open C and I have no issues whatsoever.

Also, if you like using those drop tunings a suggestion: Setup and tune to Drop C. Capo on 1st fret = Drop C#. Capo on 2nd fret = Drop D.

Konfyouzd · 06-02-2012, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElRay

It's definitely plausible/beneficial for any "wide tuning" (Fifths, Low C, etc.), but there's another reason: If you're more of a Fingerpicking, "self accompanying", etc. player (ala Mark Knopfler, Jeff Beck, etc.) you may actually want the tonal differences of "baritone" strings in the bass and "short scale" strings in the trebles.

Check-out the: Koll RE 7 / 6 (24-5/8" to 26")

It's pretty much intended to be a Jazz-box, but there's no reason the intent can't be applied to any style guitar, if it fits your playing style and budget.

Ray

Mmm dat axe. Q bella...

ElRay · 06-02-2012, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal_Webb

Just curious, but what gauge strings do you use when tuning to Drop C?...

Low C (CGDGAD) isn't Drop C. The bottom three strings are tuned in 5ths like a cello. Sure you can do it on a 25-1/2" guitar, but the longer scale will allow you to have thinner and/or tighter strings, plus it will sound different. That's the whole point in this case. Allowing the treble strings to have that "sweeter" sound you get from a short-scale and the bass strings to have that "fuller", piano-like sound you get from a "baritone" scaled guitar.

Ray

ElRay · 06-02-2012, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konfyouzd

Mmm dat axe. Q bella...

Somebody here beat me to the purchase. Good thing. I very well could have gotten myself in a lot of trouble buying it.

Ray

mountainjam · 06-02-2012, 10:20 PM

TK instruments

Metal_Webb · 06-02-2012, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElRay

Low C (CGDGAD) isn't Drop C.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ugly_guitar_guy

...I like to noodle around with Drop C (CGCFAD) a lot....

Low C isn't Drop C, I know this :P

I was just asking in case the OP was using 10-46's on there and couldn't work out why it wasn't sounding good tuned down to C

I was going to suggest he try out some heavier strings, tune lower and stick a capo on it when he want's to "tune" up. Not the ideal option, but it's cheaper than having 3 guitars in different tunings or going down the fanned fret route.

LolWotGuitar · 06-02-2012, 11:25 PM

I'd like to just offer my opinion if I may..
There are MANY 6 string guitars that have fanned frets, don't get me wrong.
Personally, I don't see any reason at ALL outside of the way the fan fits your fingers as they may slant on different parts of the neck to get a fanned fret 6 string.
A multiscale is made in order to have a longer scale for lower gauge strings in order to cope with lower tunings.
If you are tuning lower than Ab on a 6 string....you need to move up to a 7 string.
Honestly, Ab is too low for my taste on a 6 string, and that is why I bought a 7 string.

So, I must ask, how many guitars have you tried using this tuning in? I have only ran into 1 situation where I was unable to get the tones I wanted from the guitar I was using in drop C and it was a pretty cheap ESP (which I despise, hate me if you will)..

I think if you are planning out a build on a new guitar from a very well known and good builder, you should have no problems getting the tones you want from the guitar in Drop C etc. even without a multiscale.

Good luck!

scherzo1928 · 06-03-2012, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LolWotGuitar

Personally, I don't see any reason at ALL outside of the way the fan fits your fingers as they may slant on different parts of the neck to get a fanned fret 6 string.

Read the 20 comments above man.

Bolder, clearer lows. Sweeter highs. Easier to get even tension and feel across the board. Easier to intonate if he should decide to tune down even lower. Possibility to try out different tunings, like fifths. AND ergonomics, which should always be a BIG PART of any guitar you have custom made for yourself.

Danukenator · 06-03-2012, 01:59 PM

Strandberg has a great idea for his 6's. He uses a really small fan but it is enough to allow some thicker treble strings while maintaining great bend-ability.

It's also not as common because they generally aren't needed. Most player's won't use a fanned fret for low-tuning as, unless your going for Drop B/A, you can still intonate fine. Fanned frets are a really niche thing. Also niche, tuning to really low/ fifths tuning. Combined, there isn't a huge market for them.

mwcarl · 06-04-2012, 10:38 PM

Fanned 6 (bubinga neck, ebony fretboard 25"-26", honduran mahogany body and myrtle wood top) progress:

Alongside its 7 string brother:

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06-01-2012, 01:19 PM	#1
ugly_guitar_guy True Djentleman Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: OC, CA Posts: 82 Thanked: 4 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Why no 6 string fanned fret? Hey guys, So as I've been plotting out my next guitar build, I've been trying to consider what my guitar "needs" may be. My band tends to use several different tunings (Standard, Drop D, and Drop C#), and I like to noodle around with Drop C (CGCFAD) a lot, but I don't have a guitar that really hold those drop tunings well because of the tension differences from tuning to tuning. It seems to me that a fanned fret guitar that was 25" or 25.5" on the high strings, to a higher tension 27" scale on the low strings would account for this quite nicely and make for a guitar that likes to be used in low tunings. The funny thing to me is that it seems like nobody does this. Fanned frets are usually reserved for 7+ strings, even though to me it makes sense for a 6 string too. So what's keeping people from doing it?

06-01-2012, 01:24 PM	#2
Razzy Why not Zoidberg? Join Date: May 2010 Location: Amarillo, TX Posts: 2,658 Thanked: 80 $Razzy is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Razzy is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Razzy is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Razzy is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Razzy is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Razzy is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $Razzy is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ Feedback Score: 10 reviews	You're still going to end up with a large difference in tension between those tunings, no matter what scale length you're using. The reason some ERG's have fanned frets is because of the huge range that they have. With a 6-string, it's not nearly as much of an issue, and personally, I don't really see the point of a fanned fret 6-string unless you're wanting to tune in full fifths or something. Why not just get a second guitar for the lower tunings and put thicker strings on it? Carvin DC800 -> Pod HD Pro -> Rocktron Velocity 300 -> Mesa Rectifier 4x12

06-01-2012, 01:27 PM	#3
scherzo1928 has wood for you Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mexico City Posts: 4,691 Thanked: 33 $scherzo1928 is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $scherzo1928 is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $scherzo1928 is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $scherzo1928 is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $scherzo1928 is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $scherzo1928 is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ $scherzo1928 is rather kvlt and tr00. \m/$ Feedback Score: 0 reviews	There are a bunch of fanned 6s out there, but they aren't very common. It would be sweet to see more of them though. I actually have a fanned 5 stringer on my list, which I'll be tuning in fifths. TJV and CD1221 like this. Is this... guitar?

06-01-2012, 01:31 PM	#4
Konfyouzd Dread-I Master Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Mars Posts: 15,460 Thanked: 191 Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Rondo will build you one. Metal_Webb likes this. "... and on either side of the river was the tree of life. The leaves of this tree were for the healing of nations." "He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle and the herb for the service of man." "Lifes too short to hate Floyd Roses."

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06-01-2012, 02:12 PM	#5
mwcarl SS.org Regular Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 137 Thanked: 0 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Hopefully when I get some time, I'll be posting my current work on a 25"-26" fanned 6. Never played or built a multiscale guitar before, so I'm not sure I'll like that kind of guitar, but I'm giving it a shot. It's being done, but it seems to me that generally people are building 7's and 8's here anyway, so it's not too surprising that there are also more fanned 7's and 8's as well.

06-01-2012, 05:18 PM	#9
MetalDaze maggots are falling Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,544 Thanked: 55 Feedback Score: 2 reviews

06-01-2012, 05:19 PM	#10
MetalDaze maggots are falling Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,544 Thanked: 55 Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Even one for lefties

06-02-2012, 12:19 AM	#13
capoeiraesp SS.org Regular Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Land of roos Posts: 1,232 Thanked: 48 Feedback Score: 6 reviews	Multiscale 6er owner right here. Ormsby SX6 Multiscale Custom. Others Standard series Multiscale by Ormsby MAGGOTBRAIN and scherzo1928 like this.

06-02-2012, 02:55 AM	#14
Necromagnon SS.org Regular Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Grenoble, France Posts: 896 Thanked: 3 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I've tried one at the Montreal Guitar show. It's not very common on 6 str, because 6 str generally don't need it. If it's done on 7+ strings guitars, it's because lower strings needs higher scale to keep a good tension/definition. On 6 strings, standard scales just work fine for more than 60 years so... I guess it would be usefull for fifth tuning as said before, or for open tunings, and all those exotic tunings where lower strings are tuning much lower (compared to standard tuning) than higher strings. There, I think it should be really usefull. But if it's just for fun, because it looks nice, because you like to play on fanned fret or anything, I agree! Nephilim: My new 8 string in construction Check out my band Aesmah on ReverbNation or Facebook

06-02-2012, 04:32 AM	#15
ElRay Mostly Harmless Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NoIL Posts: 2,237 Thanked: 32 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	It's definitely plausible/beneficial for any "wide tuning" (Fifths, Low C, etc.), but there's another reason: If you're more of a Fingerpicking, "self accompanying", etc. player (ala Mark Knopfler, Jeff Beck, etc.) you may actually want the tonal differences of "baritone" strings in the bass and "short scale" strings in the trebles. Check-out the: Koll RE 7 / 6 (24-5/8" to 26") It's pretty much intended to be a Jazz-box, but there's no reason the intent can't be applied to any style guitar, if it fits your playing style and budget. Ray The Ultimate Question: What string gauge is needed for 18.84# of tension when tuned to E2 on a 27" scale guitar?

06-02-2012, 05:22 AM	#16
Metal_Webb Needs more strings Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Newcastle, Australia Posts: 1,129 Thanked: 19 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Just curious, but what gauge strings do you use when tuning to Drop C? I use a 0.056 on a 25.5" of mine in Open C and I have no issues whatsoever. Also, if you like using those drop tunings a suggestion: Setup and tune to Drop C. Capo on 1st fret = Drop C#. Capo on 2nd fret = Drop D. "By the way, melted binding looks like marshmallow. But it really doesn't taste like it." - MapleLeaf97

06-02-2012, 10:20 PM	#20
mountainjam SS.org Regular Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: norcal Posts: 1,617 Thanked: 33 Feedback Score: 15 reviews	TK instruments Ribboz likes this.

06-02-2012, 11:25 PM	#22
LolWotGuitar SS.org Regular Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: US Posts: 517 Thanked: 10 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I'd like to just offer my opinion if I may.. There are MANY 6 string guitars that have fanned frets, don't get me wrong. Personally, I don't see any reason at ALL outside of the way the fan fits your fingers as they may slant on different parts of the neck to get a fanned fret 6 string. A multiscale is made in order to have a longer scale for lower gauge strings in order to cope with lower tunings. If you are tuning lower than Ab on a 6 string....you need to move up to a 7 string. Honestly, Ab is too low for my taste on a 6 string, and that is why I bought a 7 string. So, I must ask, how many guitars have you tried using this tuning in? I have only ran into 1 situation where I was unable to get the tones I wanted from the guitar I was using in drop C and it was a pretty cheap ESP (which I despise, hate me if you will).. I think if you are planning out a build on a new guitar from a very well known and good builder, you should have no problems getting the tones you want from the guitar in Drop C etc. even without a multiscale. Good luck!

06-03-2012, 01:59 PM	#24
Danukenator Kane's Bane Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Portland, ME Posts: 1,505 Thanked: 21 Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Strandberg has a great idea for his 6's. He uses a really small fan but it is enough to allow some thicker treble strings while maintaining great bend-ability. It's also not as common because they generally aren't needed. Most player's won't use a fanned fret for low-tuning as, unless your going for Drop B/A, you can still intonate fine. Fanned frets are a really niche thing. Also niche, tuning to really low/ fifths tuning. Combined, there isn't a huge market for them.

06-04-2012, 10:38 PM	#25
mwcarl SS.org Regular Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Calgary, Canada Posts: 137 Thanked: 0 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Fanned 6 (bubinga neck, ebony fretboard 25"-26", honduran mahogany body and myrtle wood top) progress: Alongside its 7 string brother: scherzo1928 likes this.

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