[Josh Lawson]

Originally Posted by JBroll

You're not going to get your rights back by bending over for the state.

Seriously, that line of thinking is like the practice girls in high school thinking they can get respect by fucking the popular guys at a moment's notice - did they get anywhere? No. The real fun was with the girls who played said popular guys and epically owned them in front of all their friends when they fucked up. Being the bitch GETS YOU NOWHERE.

Jeff

I really don't appreciate being called a bitch because I have a different point of view than you do. They have helped me in my life way more than they have hindered me. Like when my girlfriend got sexually assaulted, they went after the guy and he's in jail. Or when my house got broken into, they put that dude in jail. How about when I got beatdown had two cracked ribs and a concussion....the perp went to jail. Call me a "bitch who likes to get fucked" or whatever you said that just fine. I have been seriously victimized by scumbag filth and someone has to clean up the mess that is our streets...you're not doing it, fucker.

[JBroll]

I'm not calling you a bitch, I'm making a reference to 'being the bitch' as the rest of the context implies. This has nothing to do with the police, it has to do with you abandoning your rights.

Again, look at my previous posts - I do respect the police officers for keeping people safe (when they're doing that), and what I'm saying is a problem is the attitude many people have that their rights can be traded in for safety.

Way to miss the point.

Jeff

[Josh Lawson]

Originally Posted by JBroll

I'm not calling you a bitch, I'm making a reference to 'being the bitch' as the rest of the context implies. This has nothing to do with the police, it has to do with you abandoning your rights.

Again, look at my previous posts - I do respect the police officers for keeping people safe (when they're doing that), and what I'm saying is a problem is the attitude many people have that their rights can be traded in for safety.

Way to miss the point.

Jeff

I don't believe I missed your point at all. I get what you are saying. I just don't think the corruption and abuses are as widespread as what is swirling around in here. We never got to vote on the Patriot Act or really any of the landmark legislation that has taken away our rights. WE didn't trade our "rights" for "safety", THEY did that for us. So what is our option? Cause problems for ourselves, or cooperate and have them go away faster.....it really is that black and white.

[s7eve]

[JBroll]

Originally Posted by Josh Lawson

I don't believe I missed your point at all. I get what you are saying. I just don't think the corruption and abuses are as widespread as what is swirling around in here. We never got to vote on the Patriot Act or really any of the landmark legislation that has taken away our rights. WE didn't trade our "rights" for "safety", THEY did that for us. So what is our option? Cause problems for ourselves, or cooperate and have them go away faster.....it really is that black and white.

Sticking strictly to the textbook freedoms, you do get to vote against the lawmakers (but nobody does, oddly enough - can you say 90% reelection rates?), and challenge legislation in the courts, but the problem is that people don't realize that they do, in fact, have power - and if it is not used, as it hasn't been lately, it'll be taken away.

As for the cooperation with unnecessary invasions of privacy, which these are, you have no idea how easy it is to be framed for things you haven't done. Further, just because something will go away quicker doesn't mean the outcome will be better. Fewer people think they have a RIGHT to not be harassed for no good reason when that attitude spreads, and it opens up the floodgates to all sorts of nasty shit. If someone keeps harassing you, take down his badge number and file complaints. If the citizens of this nation take it up the ass with things like these rights, it won't be long until other rights are stripped away.

We are supposed to have rights against unreasonable search and seizure, not a right to consent to search and seizure or be handcuffed and beaten while having our property searched and/or seized. A citizen without rights is a subject.

Jeff

[Josh Lawson]

Originally Posted by JBroll

Sticking strictly to the textbook freedoms, you do get to vote against the lawmakers (but nobody does, oddly enough - can you say 90% reelection rates?), and challenge legislation in the courts, but the problem is that people don't realize that they do, in fact, have power - and if it is not used, as it hasn't been lately, it'll be taken away.

As for the cooperation with unnecessary invasions of privacy, which these are, you have no idea how easy it is to be framed for things you haven't done. Further, just because something will go away quicker doesn't mean the outcome will be better. Fewer people think they have a RIGHT to not be harassed for no good reason when that attitude spreads, and it opens up the floodgates to all sorts of nasty shit. If someone keeps harassing you, take down his badge number and file complaints. If the citizens of this nation take it up the ass with things like these rights, it won't be long until other rights are stripped away.

We are supposed to have rights against unreasonable search and seizure, not a right to consent to search and seizure or be handcuffed and beaten while having our property searched and/or seized. A citizen without rights is a subject.

Jeff

See, I agree with you on many of your points, and yes in rare cases, people have been framed. This has happened on very rare occurrences. Complaints are the best recourse, and so is video and audio installed in their cars. People of a nation get the leaders, and the law enforcement they deserve. Like you said, 90% reelections with a 14% approval rating? Insane. Things are going to get a whole lot worse before they get any better, unfortunately.

[The Dark Wolf]

Originally Posted by Josh Lawson

I really don't appreciate being called a bitch because I have a different point of view than you do. They have helped me in my life way more than they have hindered me. Like when my girlfriend got sexually assaulted, they went after the guy and he's in jail. Or when my house got broken into, they put that dude in jail. How about when I got beatdown had two cracked ribs and a concussion....the perp went to jail. Call me a "bitch who likes to get fucked" or whatever you said that just fine. I have been seriously victimized by scumbag filth and someone has to clean up the mess that is our streets...you're not doing it, fucker.

I was 17, 18 years old. I got chased by 2 huge, belligerent, angry inner-city dudes, who threatened to "kill me." My door was kicked in in broad daylight. (I did nothing to warrant this, BTW.)

I call 911. The call comes over the radio of a cop who just happened to be at the same Wendy's my parents were at, which was probably about a 2 minute drive away. My folks hear our address, and were at my house within 5 minutes after I make the call. Mind you, the call was frantic, as 2 fucking monsters were kicking in my door when I made it.

It took the police over 40 minutes to show up. And when they (he) did, guess what? It was the same cop who was at Wendy's. I guess he had to finish his burger.


Blind defense of the police is not only foolish, it is irrational, uniformed, and often-times just flat wrong. No matter how you spin it, that was just purely negligent on the police's part.

[The Dark Wolf]

And watch calling people "fucker" in such a confrontational manner. It's clear from the context of his post Jeff wasn't calling you a "bitch" personally.

Thanks.

[Josh Lawson]

Originally Posted by The Dark Wolf

And watch calling people "fucker" in such a confrontational manner. It's clear from the context of his post Jeff wasn't calling you a "bitch" personally.

Thanks.

Yeah you're right. Sorry Jeff, for calling you a fucker, that was uncalled for and unnecessary. I have a lot of emotion and passion wrapped up in this subject. What might appear to be my "blind obedience" is actually serious pessimism and a furious hatred for this system, and the state of affairs in America today. Think about it, we don't really get to vote on our rights getting taken away, there really is nothing the common man can do about it. Our system is seriously flawed, that is certain. "Probable Cause" doesn't mean the same as it used to.

[JBroll]

No problem, I don't take political stuff here too personally.

I have to disagree, though - there's a hell of a lot you can do to keep your rights from being taken away.

Use them. Abuse them. Make sure those around you know they don't have to bend over and take it. Drop the pessimism and turn it into desire for change.

Worst case scenario, we format DC and reinstall everything from scratch.

Jeff