[ZeroSignal]

Originally Posted by D-EJ915

there's no way those batteries cost $10k dude that's just laughable

[technomancer]

Originally Posted by D-EJ915

there's no way those batteries cost $10k dude that's just laughable

You have no clue what you're talking about Go price out batteries for a current UPS power supply with similar power specs to what was in the EV-1, as the technology is somewhat similar. Now keep in mind that that technology has been coming down in price for 10 years since the EV-1 was in production.

Bottom line was maintenance costs were assanine and GM lost shit loads of money so they pulled the plug. There was no grand conspiracy.

I also love the antipollution crowd that jumps on the electric car bandwagon but doesn't stop to consider that on average current electrical energy production is MUCH dirtier than gasoline, especially in the eastern US where coal burning power plants are still common.

Now if people would get their heads out of their asses and start building pebble bed nuclear reactors, wind turbine farms, and solar arrays so we have cheap clean electricity it might be a different story. (and again before someone spouts off about unsafe nuclear power plants, TMI, Cherboyble, etc please do some research on the type of reactor I'm talking about)

[E Lucevan Le Stelle]

Originally Posted by technomancer

Cherboyble

*Chernobyl.

Got boys on the brain again Steve?

[s7eve]

I'm in the market for a car, when I started watching it I thought damn I have to get one of those EV's it would be perfect for me (RAV4), as it went on I was sickened from watching it and thought the whole thing was very disappointing. After it finished I was angry but I remembered that the Australian government offers a subsidy currently for people who convert there vehicles to alternative energy (from memory the figure is something like $6000 for EV's). So I looked up what is involved for the conversion, how much it will cost and what the ongoing running costs would be. It turns out that converting to LPG only is cheaper has lower ongoing running costs, has approximately the same cost per 100 km of driving and is more convenient.

Now I don't agree with Nick entirely I think the answer lies somewhere between the two views but I do agree that EV's are not the solution. I think modern plugin hybrids are the best answer we have now. I also think there are possible viable alternatives out there that are being overlooked and that we have a responsibility to make sure these get the support they need.

[technomancer]

Originally Posted by E Lucevan Le Stelle

*Chernobyl.

Got boys on the brain again Steve?

Now THAT is a funny typo

Oh and on the battery pack point, the Prius replacement battery pack was $5500 and is now down to $3000, so for the guys that said the EV battery pack couldn't possibly have been $10k 10 years ago well, you get the picture.

[Cancer]

Originally Posted by technomancer

Guys please do a little independent research. They were recalled and destroyed because the technology wasn't there. Had the cars not been destroyed and sold to their owners you would have seen MASSIVE bitching when the battery packs in them needed replaced at (IIRC) $10,000 three years after production. They worked, and were great for what they were at the time, but maintenance on them was simply not sustainable at a reasonable price point.

Agreed... but here's the thing. The EV1 gave us a HUGE headstart in terms of advancing electric technology AND consumer acceptance. Had they had continued to produce the EV!, or at least not make the car totally disappear from the public radar, we'd be alot closer to general public accpetance of EV's and would probably have some infrastructure to match (ie, plug-in stations in public garages for example ....just as aside the only ones I know of are on the Apple Campus ...why? because of the EV1). We could have avoided the mad scramble to change over to hybrids like we're seeing now.

Originally Posted by technomancer

Now if people would get their heads out of their asses and start building pebble bed nuclear reactors, wind turbine farms, and solar arrays so we have cheap clean electricity it might be a different story. (and again before someone spouts off about unsafe nuclear power plants, TMI, Cherboyble, etc please do some research on the type of reactor I'm talking about)

Pebble bed reactors FTW....

[Drew]

The mnad scramble to change over to hybrids would have happened anyway, dude. The EV1, for better or for worse, wasn't cost-effective. If you want to talk about conspiracy theories, the only one I'll grant you is that GM may have intentionally released an electric car that wasn't cost-effective, but considering how many units they'd have moved had they been able to produce a cost-effective and functional electric vehicle, the only way I'll buy that argument is if you can prove they were in bed with Big Oil. Not impossible, just difficult.

Anyway, we're seeign a "mad scramble to change over to hybrids" today for one simple reason - that with gas now over $4 a gallon, something that wasn't cost effective even 8 months ago at $2.60 a gallon suddenly is a lot more so. It's still probably cheaper to buy a Corolla than a Prius, but after watching gas prices spike by more than $1.50 in s months, and baloon from less than a dollar a gallon under Clinton, you have to wonder just how high they're going to go. I want to say that $5 a gallon is the point where a Prius really begins to pay for itself, and at a national average of $4.08, we're really not that far off.

It's simple economics. We'd have a mad scramble for ANYTHING that would improve gas mileage right now simply because over the last few months the cost of gasoline has changed so radically that the cost/benefit analysis of alternative energy vehicles just changed radically in their favor. The EV1 wouldn't have fundamentally changed that, because it wouldn't have been as cost effective as the alternatives until just now, as well.

[technomancer]

Originally Posted by Cancer

Agreed... but here's the thing. The EV1 gave us a HUGE headstart in terms of advancing electric technology AND consumer acceptance. Had they had continued to produce the EV!, or at least not make the car totally disappear from the public radar, we'd be alot closer to general public accpetance of EV's and would probably have some infrastructure to match (ie, plug-in stations in public garages for example ....just as aside the only ones I know of are on the Apple Campus ...why? because of the EV1). We could have avoided the mad scramble to change over to hybrids like we're seeing now.

Unfortunately GM was hemorrhaging money on the EV1 and they're a business not a charity. It was only going to get worse as maintenance costs went up as batteries started to degrade over time. The technology was simply not ready at the time. It was a losing business proposition so they pulled the plug. Pretty straight forward.

Oh and on battery cost, I can't find a definitive figure on the replacement cost but the number I have seen repeatedly is $20,000, not $10,000.

[s7eve]

I considered buying a second hand Prius today that needs the battery pack serviced. I called Toyota to find out how much that would cost and was told that Toyota Australia refuse to service or sell parts for the early Prius as they should not be in Australia, he tried to argue that they were not legal. I responded that our government obviously did not agree as they have approved them for import. He said I should stay away from it as Toyota would not help me with it if anything went wrong, I said something about Toyota trying to control the market, he claimed the reason was that they did not intend that car for our market. He also claimed that Toyota had abandoned the battery technology in the early Prius a claim I know is not true (the technology is the same, the specification has changed) though Toyota do plan to change it in the future.

Needless to say he was far from impressed when I finished the conversation saying it sounds like a good business opportunity for someone to open a Prius service centre and informed him how cheap it is to import a battery pack for the early Prius compared to the price of buying a replacement battery for a new Prius.

I guess Toyota are pissed over the various articles and current affairs program claims that one is better off buying an import Prius instead of a new one especially the one that claimed buying an import Prius will save you so much money that it is equivalent to getting a car for free.