[Popsyche]

Originally Posted by .jason.

They had all vox thru the board,bass,guitars,keys,sampler and kick and snare...and the place was tiny

http://www.skybar.us/

I sure hope not all at equal levels! I have been mixing for 30 years and one of my pet peeves is sound guys that think just because they bought a drum mic, they need toi hear it. Really, I will usually only punch up a couple frequencies, and not just blast shit. If you want a board mix while your playing, take it off of an unused pre fader aux bus, and mix it before the show somewhat. Of course, this sounds to be way past the skill level of that asshole.

[The Dark Wolf]

Originally Posted by .jason.

They had all vox thru the board,bass,guitars,keys,sampler and kick and snare...and the place was tiny ]

There's different approaches to house/PA mixing. I much prefer to have stage levels low, directed monitors (or even better, in-ear), and a full-range mix through the PA. Always sounds better to me. And! Some overheads for the drums.

The 'sound reinforcement' method Bill mentions is sure as shit viable, but it almost always sounds like crap, unless the people manning the board really know what they're doing. Otherwise, all you get is mud, mud, mud fucking vocals, mega kick drum, and bass out the ass. And it seems like the nicer the gear the house uses, with that approach, the worse the sound.

[Jason]

I dunno bill. It sounded halfway decent FOH. I haven't gotten a chance to listen to the recorded mix yet.

[The Dark Wolf]

Originally Posted by Popsyche

If you want a board mix while your playing, take it off of an unused pre fader aux bus, and mix it before the show somewhat. Of course, this sounds to be way past the skill level of that asshole.

that's the best way for sure.

[Popsyche]

Originally Posted by The Dark Wolf

There's different approaches to house/PA mixing. I much prefer to have stage levels low, directed monitors (or even better, in-ear), and a full-range mix through the PA. Always sounds better to me. And! Some overheads for the drums.

The 'sound reinforcement' method Bill mentions is sure as shit viable, but it almost always sounds like crap, unless the people manning the board really know what they're doing. Otherwise, all you get is mud, mud, mud fucking vocals, mega kick drum, and bass out the ass. And it seems like the nicer the gear the house uses, with that approach, the worse the sound.

Now Bob, you and I both know how often that happens. I play at a very low level, and ye are truly blessed if you have a drummer that isn't out to prove how much abuse his kit can take. I'm in one of the few bands that regularly asks for the monitors to be turned down. Having a band understand low stage volume is a pure luxury! I wish more did!

[The Dark Wolf]

You are axo-facto right, Bill.

I guess I was spoiled by mostly doing sound for my band, where I had total 'dictator-like control' over sound. I mean, it can be done right, and like you say, most small clubs do it that way. I've heard a FEW (rare) cases where it worked.

But holy shit, the louder the system, the less you need it for 'reinforcement' and more for total sound projection!

[Drew]

Originally Posted by .jason.

They had all vox thru the board,bass,guitars,keys,sampler and kick and snare...and the place was tiny

http://www.skybar.us/

Jason, you realize that place is a ten minute walk from my place, right? And that I've got about another five mics you could have borrowed in a pinch when you realized ou had to mic up, right?

[Christopher]

Sorry shit went south for you Jason. For some guys just getting a usable FOH mix is a challenge, when you start talking about recording as well, there's some panic! He probably got worried because you'd see how poorly he had things set up.

I'm with the Wolf on mixing methods. We run in ears though so every fuckin' thing gets mic'd up and worked. I run four different mono IEM mixes (one each for each player) and then pick and choose what I want for the FOH.

We have an abusive drummer but I run everything else direct to board (keys, bass, guitar, vocals) and I use my cab for a little extra monitor.

Recording us is super easy though as I'll take the pre fader direct outs on each channel and snake their happy asses over to my pro tools rig and do all the mixing later. If I have the channel space (damn Digi 002 with it's 16 input limit) I'll throw up a room mic or two.

In my neck of the woods 99% of the guys standing behind a mixer are there by default and have no idea what they're doing. Some are cool and admit it and others just try to make you believe it.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Drew

Jason, you realize that place is a ten minute walk from my place, right? And that I've got about another five mics you could have borrowed in a pinch when you realized ou had to mic up, right?

Yeah I kinda noticed that.. We got off the highway. "This looks kinda familar" Oh and if you checked out the live performace section you woulda seen my post they were playing.

[The Dark Wolf]

Originally Posted by Christopher

I'm with the Wolf on mixing methods. We run in ears though so every fuckin' thing gets mic'd up and worked. I run four different mono IEM mixes (one each for each player) and then pick and choose what I want for the FOH.

We have an abusive drummer but I run everything else direct to board (keys, bass, guitar, vocals) and I use my cab for a little extra monitor.

Recording us is super easy though as I'll take the pre fader direct outs on each channel and snake their happy asses over to my pro tools rig and do all the mixing later. If I have the channel space (damn Digi 002 with it's 16 input limit) I'll throw up a room mic or two..

Exactly! This is the way I learned to mix. You can even get away with wedge monitors, as long as stage volume is under control. Optimally, everything goes through FOH, you just tweak levels. If everything is done carefully, you can even get away with a stereo sub-mix of everything, for quick n' dirty recordings (although obviously not ideal).

I want to get a new laptop, and a killer multi-line input for it.