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Unread 04-22-2012, 04:14 PM   #26
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So obviously Leanigans worked for you, what was your workout routine like? You said you just started adding in cardio, and given your current definition I'd imagine squats/deadlifts are 100% in there, with the rest being bicep/tricep stuff, traps, delts, and ab work?

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Unread 04-22-2012, 04:54 PM   #27
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that really is some amazing work man!
however, my concern is to maintain that look/body over the course of say, next few years.
how would you be maintaining that?

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Unread 04-22-2012, 07:52 PM   #28
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Do you mind me asking what your average calorie deficit was. I just started a similar routine and I'm pretty much the same weight and height.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 12:38 AM   #29
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I'll have to try this, I work out regularly but getting rid of body fat has always been difficult for me, I wouldn't mind seeing the results of the effort I put in more defined.

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Unread 04-23-2012, 10:34 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Uncreative123 View Post
Calories are irrelevant. I didn't count calories at all. I always have a rough idea of what I'm consuming, so I know I was at a deficit on nearly all days. Trying to do 3600 cal a day with ONLY clean food is never going to happen with me. I can't eat that way. I think the calorie stuff is overblown too. I believe there is something on the lean gains site that discusses this. Don't try to reach calories, try to reach macros: 200g protein, 50g/carbs, whatever for fat, usually around the same amount as carbs. I can't stress enough how utterly useless calorie counting is. Macros are more important and much easier to deal with.
See, I was under the impression macros fitted in with calories very well. E.g the whole P/C/F thing put into my recommend calories for example, seemed to correspond very well with the g/lb method.

For example bulking; 3000 calories
200g protein
350g carbs
90g fat

Those fit the g/lb recommendations and the calories come out about right too.

I can't imagine doing what you've said - i.e. meeting macros
200g protein
90g fat
50g carbs

That's only 1800 calories! Surely that would be pretty damaging to my muscle? I'd imagine I'd be losing about 5lb a week!

Thanks for the advice though! I'm going to see what I can work out with some more info and whatever reply you might give
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Unread 04-24-2012, 02:22 AM   #31
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Damn, nice progress! I've been doing Lean Gains half-arsedly for a while now, after doing it properly for a month and dropping a lot of fat, but this is really good progress. When you ramp up the amount of carbs you eat from 50g to ~200g, is that on training days or do you just do that every 2 or 3 days? A cheat meal a day is quite interesting, I might look into that more...
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Unread 04-24-2012, 02:26 AM   #32
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Also, what would you say you found to be more important in determining success, the intermittent fasting aspect of LG or the macronutrient partitioning than Martin describes? Cheers.
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Unread 04-24-2012, 05:30 AM   #33
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Also, what would you say you found to be more important in determining success, the intermittent fasting aspect of LG or the macronutrient partitioning than Martin describes? Cheers.
Good question I'm curious on this as I doubt I could stick to the timing too well. One things for sure I definitely can't do 3 big meals a day - barely have time for 1!
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Unread 04-24-2012, 10:09 AM   #34
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Man, those are some serious results....

I need to get back into shape

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Unread 04-24-2012, 10:05 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by MFB View Post
So obviously Leanigans worked for you, what was your workout routine like? You said you just started adding in cardio, and given your current definition I'd imagine squats/deadlifts are 100% in there, with the rest being bicep/tricep stuff, traps, delts, and ab work?
7 day split- shoulders, hams, bis&tris,light legs, chest, back, legs. Icant workout on Saturdays so i usually hax fhat as an off day. Only did deadlifts maybe twice. I usually do stiff legged deadlifts. I dont do squats i do box squats. Ab work was done here and there whenever i could fit it in.
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Unread 04-24-2012, 10:07 PM   #36
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that really is some amazing work man!
however, my concern is to maintain that look/body over the course of say, next few years.
how would you be maintaining that?
I won't. I eat like shit. Its not like itd be too hard to maintain because its not a crazy low bf% or anything. I'm just a realist. I'm on tour right now and it's impossible to eat clean.
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Unread 04-24-2012, 10:37 PM   #37
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See, I was under the impression macros fitted in with calories very well. E.g the whole P/C/F thing put into my recommend calories for example, seemed to correspond very well with the g/lb method.

For example bulking; 3000 calories
200g protein
350g carbs
90g fat

Those fit the g/lb recommendations and the calories come out about right too.

I can't imagine doing what you've said - i.e. meeting macros
200g protein
90g fat
50g carbs

That's only 1800 calories! Surely that would be pretty damaging to my muscle? I'd imagine I'd be losing about 5lb a week!

Thanks for the advice though! I'm going to see what I can work out with some more info and whatever reply you might give
I don't know how you think you know how many calories i was consuming based on macros. If you can't get past this calorie hangup then i can't help you. If you think 1800 calories for someone in your position is too much then i can tell you now you're not going to achieve your goals. I already said in one of the other posts how i prevented muscle loss. If you don't think it'll work then don't do it. I dont care. But i will tell you that i consumed lessthan 1800 multiple days in a row and im alot bigger than you.
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Unread 04-24-2012, 10:40 PM   #38
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Also, what would you say you found to be more important in determining success, the intermittent fasting aspect of LG or the macronutrient partitioning than Martin describes? Cheers.
Both. If i had to pick one over the other id say lowering carbs makes a bigger difference. But that shouldn't be a reason to do one over the other.
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Unread 04-25-2012, 03:32 AM   #39
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Fair play, just curious as to what you thought was all! I pretty much just eat whatever with the 8/16 timing intervals; it's allowed me to put on a few kilos of muscle and gain strength without gaining fat, but this has given me the motivation to tighten up my diet so that I can gain strength and shed the fat simultaneously, it's definitely possible. Thanks!
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Unread 04-25-2012, 05:24 AM   #40
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Well you can work out calories based on macros..."try to reach macros: 200g protein, 50g/carbs, whatever for fat" - that's still a set amount of cals once the fat is done..

" i consumed lessthan 1800 multiple days in a row and im alot bigger than you"
Well that's all I needed to hear Thanks. It just goes against pretty much everything I've ever heard i.e. dropping more than a few hundred below maintenance = too fast weight loss and lots of muscle loss. I always presumed you'd have to massively up the protein+fat to meet 'normal' cutting cals on these low carb diets. I'll probably try it if my current results slow down.
I'm currently at 175 so things are going ok
Thanks again and good luck
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Unread 04-25-2012, 06:16 AM   #41
 
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I would like to chime in that there are a LOT of misconceptions or bro science or whatever you want to call it about caloric intake, muscle loss/gain, the threat of cardiovascular exercise, and its been my experience (with my body and others) that strength/muscle gains are easily doable on a supposed caloric deficit. Beware of the established theory that you need to eat some astronomical amount of calories, gain weight (fat and a little muscle) and then you have to go through a cutting phase.

I understand this is the go to method on body building forums, but I encourage digging deeper.
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Unread 04-25-2012, 06:44 AM   #42
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^ Point taken - I've heard this a few times now!

Strength gains and muscle gains - ok. But what about general weight? I thought that was impossible.
Say I were at 10% and wanted to stay there while gaining muscle, a defecit wouldn't work, right? I'd be best just bulking very slowly? That's my plan after this cut.
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Unread 04-25-2012, 07:28 AM   #43
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^ Point taken - I've heard this a few times now!

Strength gains and muscle gains - ok. But what about general weight? I thought that was impossible.
Say I were at 10% and wanted to stay there while gaining muscle, a defecit wouldn't work, right? I'd be best just bulking very slowly? That's my plan after this cut.
I responded to you in this thread about the misconception of needing to be in a constant surplus to gain muscle :

Anyone here bench, lift weights, etc?
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Unread 04-25-2012, 08:48 AM   #44
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My body's exactly the same shape as the OP's before one, funny like that sometimes

Diet is indeed the major part of it. About 3 weeks ago I cut out all soft drinks, fried foods, and only have carbs at breakfast with a protein shake. Currently loosing about 1kg (2.2 lb) a week and this is with absolutely no extra physical activity at all (read, none in general ) Also cut back the grog to 1 beer a day tops, barring parties etc etc.

Due to all the lifting I had to do at work over summer, I put on quite a bit of upper body muscle. So far I haven't seen any muscle atrophy there, so cutting out all the extra calories must be doing me some good.

Morale of the story: Calorie control. It's hard at first changing your diet and resisting all the shitty foods, but it is worth it and does get easier after the second week.

@Uncreative: Bloody good work there mate! Be proud of that shit

(sorry about the thread bombing, just felt I had to share my tale of the importance of diet)

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Unread 04-25-2012, 10:45 AM   #45
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For a caloric reference: I started out at 5'10 175 earlier this year and have been eating 1200-1300 calories a day without losing any strength at all (not that I had much in the first place ), just 20 lbs of fat so far. At 1800 you could easily be gaining plenty of muscle.
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Unread 04-25-2012, 06:30 PM   #46
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This is INSANE, top-class work man! That kind of physique can only be gained with determination, so you must have had shitloads!

I'm on a three-month cut and a month in I've had very little progress, I'm definitely gonna start this as soon as possible, hopefully Friday. If you shed 12.5% body fat in eleven weeks I sure as hell should be able to lose 3-5% in eight

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Unread 04-25-2012, 10:13 PM   #47
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That's awesome stuff, Uncreative, fantastic dedication.
What I love about Lean Gains is that it takes the mental drain aspect out of it.
So many guys I know are complaining about having to eat really small meals, complaining about lost strength and muscle and say they feel mentally drained after a long period of cutting.
Meanwhile I get to eat like a king, feeling satisfied physically and mentally after eat meal, while simultaneously losing fat, gaining strength and gaining muscle.
It has a long term mental sustainability that 'CUT AND BULK BRO, CUT AND BULK!" cycles just don't have.
I feel that cut and bulk cycles are better suited to those on 'special' supplements, because after all, a lot of the broscience we hear today came from massive guys in the 70s like Arnold, Zane, Nubret etc that NEEDED to do cut and bulk cycles, NEEDED to eat 6 meals a day just to hit their macros/caloric needs and they weren't 6 small meals like the natural lifter broscientists of today eat.

A natural lifter without a massive amount of mass can do fine on 3 big meals a day (I myself like to go for 2 or 3 meals day in the 8 hour feeding window). There's no need to starve yourself with small meals anymore and making it mentally draining.
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Unread 04-26-2012, 08:43 AM   #48
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Totally off topic, I met this guy yesterday in Detroit and talked to him for awhile. Most of you have probably seen this video- in fact, that's how I recognized him. He's really nice. Said he doesn't do steroids:

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Unread 04-26-2012, 04:18 PM   #49
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I think I've spoken to him online a few years ago. Seemed like a real cool guy. Love it how everyone on the internet bashes him for whatever reason they can think of.

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Unread 04-26-2012, 06:09 PM   #50
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I love that guy's vids, he's a wicked player and it's amusing to see people yell accusations at him just because they feel intimidated
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