[Luan]

The other day I was at my harmony group class, and the teacher asks "what is the function of the III- (or -7) in the major scale?
Everybody said "Dominant", and then I said tonic!
I didn't understood how can somebody think that the III- had a dominant function!!
And then my teachers says, lets hear it!
He plays the progression that we were using in the exercise, and stops at the III-7, and it was clear that it didn't resolved at all, and in fact it was a tense moment of the progression.
I couldn't believe it! I've readed the opposite in my whole life, and then he explained that this chord has the leading tone of the scale, among other notes.
Then he said that for the berklee-minded musicians, that chords has a tonic function, and for the classical musicians it has a sort of dominat function.

Thoughts?

[Stitch]

Making sure we use the same terminology (I'm not certain) - what is the significance of the dash at the end of III- ?

Why couldn't it be dominant? Why would it be tonic?

[JBroll]

- indicating minor, perhaps?

Clearly, Berklee students are bonkers.

If you consider the relative minor of a scale, the third is a fourth below the sixth (that doesn't sound silly at all...) so in a minor context it could be seen as the 'relative dominant of the minor' or something silly like that. Of course, the tritone of the dominant, being between two elementary chord tones, is a lot more obvious than the tritone of the third, between the fifth (which is often not played but implied) and the ninth (which is not always played or even implied), but I'm really just speculating based on why I'd see a III- as a dominant.

Jeff

[Stitch]

Why not use IIIm? Or is there an additional layer of complexity I am not seeing here?...

[Ken]

Well, hmm.

The devil here is in the details, so let's get those straight first.

Capitalization. iii is different than III. iii is minor, III is major.

Let's take our example into the key of C. If we are playing in C Ionian, E is the 3rd, iii, (and not very likely part of the progression). If we're in A Aeolian, however, E is now the 5th, III, and thus a secondary-dominant.

Why?

Resolution.

The tritone interval between the major 3rd and minor 7th of a dominant chord creates tension that begs to be resolved. So, the 3rd of "E" (G) is raised to G#, which then creates the necessary intervallic tension needed to bend our ear toward the root, A minor.

Clear as mud?

[JBroll]

I was taught by a jazz guy, and there - because reading fake books on a dimly lit stage doesn't make for easy differentiation between i and I - I got used to seeing C- as C minor. That seems to be a background-specific notation complaint... you bloody soulless classical nut.

Jeff

[Luan]

Originally Posted by Stitch

Making sure we use the same terminology (I'm not certain) - what is the significance of the dash at the end of III- ?

Why couldn't it be dominant? Why would it be tonic?

About the - I will explain it below.
I've already explained why it seems to be a dominant chord even if it's a minor chord, and it would be minor just because every harmony book I've readed says so
Wich is very weird.

Originally Posted by Ken

Well, hmm.

The devil here is in the details, so let's get those straight first.

Capitalization. iii is different than III. iii is minor, III is major.

Let's take our example into the key of C. If we are playing in C Ionian, E is the 3rd, iii, (and not very likely part of the progression). If we're in A Aeolian, however, E is now the 5th, III, and thus a secondary-dominant.

Why?

Resolution.

The tritone interval between the major 3rd and minor 7th of a dominant chord creates tension that begs to be resolved. So, the 3rd of "E" (G) is raised to G#, which then creates the necessary intervallic tension needed to bend our ear toward the root, A minor.

Clear as mud?

I know that if we were talking about E or E7 it would be a secondary dominant, but I was talking about a E-7 being a dominant chord.

Originally Posted by JBroll

That seems to be a background-specific notation complaint... you bloody soulless classical nut.

Jeff

There are 2 systems of notating chord degrees:
Using capitals for example III for major and iii for minor (classical music uses this).
Using the minus for minor chords, and using always upcase numbers.
This last one is good for jazz since you can write II-7(b5) and it's more clear, and you don't get confused when it is handwrited.

[awesomeargos]

I like the - for minor also.
I would like to say there are three kinds of chords 1.Major chords. 2.Minor chords. and 3. Dominant seventh chords [augmented and diminished] can be found in dominant seventh extensions.
I also like to use the French 7 which is not on my keyboard to stand for major seventh some people use the triangle also not on my keyboard, but in a dim club after a couple of scotches the triangle looks like a diminished symbol and if you play a 7 chord for a major seven chord it is not nearly as excruciating as playing a diminished chord for a major seventh chord.

[JBroll]

Most people I know who have to write things like that either copy-and-paste from somewhere else or use some typesetting software - TeX does a lot of things really well, and there's a Music package to add to it that has every music symbol you'll ever need and then some... if you don't feel like actually learning anything try Lyx.

Jeff

[yevetz]

tonic, sub-dominant, domonant, tonic

If I understand your question right so yes 3-rd is dominant