[distressed_romeo]

Is there any way of easily classifying them, as I've come across a lot of contradictory information regarding the naming of each one.

For instance, the Dorian Bebop scale; I've seen it labelled as...

ABCDEFF#GA
ABCC#DEF#GA
ABCDEF#GG#A

Just so we're clear, I already understand the concept behind these scales and how to apply them, I'm just curious as to whether there's an 'official' system for naming them all.
Can any educated jazzers help me out?

[Drew]

See, I DON'T understand the concept behind them and how to apply them - first I've heard of them, in fact. So, while I can't answer your question, could you tell me a bit about them?

They sort of look like diatonic scales with some added chromatic passing tones...?

[DDDorian]

^^That's pretty much all they are, diatonic scales with an extra note added in order to aid playing eighth-notes at tricky speeds. As far as I know, though, there aren't really a definitive set of names for them; the reason you've seen three different names of the Dorian Bebop scale is probably because those three particular incarnations are preffered by three different players. I think the extra "bebop" note is really up to personal preference, you just have to acknowledge that it's there.

[distressed_romeo]

Originally Posted by Drew

See, I DON'T understand the concept behind them and how to apply them - first I've heard of them, in fact. So, while I can't answer your question, could you tell me a bit about them?

They sort of look like diatonic scales with some added chromatic passing tones...?

Basically the idea is to add one chromatic passing note to a standard diatonic scale, so when you play it up or down starting on the root you'll get the notes of a four note arpeggio on the downbeats, and passing tones on the offbeats, for instance...

You're playing over a G7 chord you could play...

GABCDEFF#G

Which would highlight a G7 arpeggio!

If the seventh of a chord is a semitone away from the root, then the passing note will be between the fifth and sixth instead most of the time to maintain the effect.
It's one of the ways jazzers make their lines more harmonically defined. It's fascinating when you start learning the science behind how jazz lines are constructed...it's a lot like how Bach would imply chord changes in his solo violin music. Since I started practicing this seriously, my phrasing over less busy changes has improved tenfold as well, as it reeeeeeally forces you to understand the cycle of fifths, and how each note sounds over each chord. I almost think more in terms of chord tones than scales these days, and play a lot of 'poly-modal' lines (which incidentally, is very similar to Marty Friedman's approach to improv...).

DDDorian, I suspect you're completely right, I just figured it was worth asking the question...

[maskofduality]

hey distressed_romeo, I have a question about those scales, how did you construct them? did it involve combinations with diminished scales? I'm asking because my previous teacher taught me to combine each mode with its own diminished scale and we just named them altered scales but otherwise I never learned what they were and well, these look like they might be it (i'm not sure though).

[distressed_romeo]

I think what your teacher was trying to explain was something different...

What I suspect he means is treating the diminished scales as being related to different modes, and a means of getting altered sounds over those tonalities.

For instance...

A G Mixolydian mode contains the notes...

G (root) A (2nd) B (3rd), C (4th), D (5th), E (6th) F (b7th)

...And a G half-whole diminished scale contains the notes...

G (root) Ab (b2nd) Bb (#2nd) B (3rd) C#(#4) D(5th) E(6th/dim7th) F(b7th)

So you can see how the diminished scale highlights the dominant tonality if played over a G7 chord, as it contains the notes of the G7 chord, but also gives an altered sound due to the number of 'outside' notes within it.

For the sake of comparison, here's what a G altered scale would look like...

G (root) Ab(b2nd) Bb(#2nd) B(3rd/b4th) Db(5th) Eb(b6th) F(b7th)

So, if you wanted to get an altered sound over a G7 chord, you could use either the half-whole dimished or G altered scales over that tonality, and get a nice sprinkling of altered tones, or you could play a G mixolydian line over it and mix in some of those altered notes.
This is something I've been working at a lot in my own improvising. To get the idea of what's going on, the best thing to do is practice soloing with these scales over chords, and practice singing them each in turn to memorise their sounds. It's possible to develop this to the point where you stop thinking in terms of scales at all, and can freely use the full chromatic scale over each chord.

Bebop scales are a slightly different concept.

Here's a Mixolydian mode with the chord tones in brackets...

(G)A(B)C(D)E(F)

If you were to playthat as straight 8th notes, ascending or descending, starting on the root each time, , you'd have a seven-note phrase. Of course, in jazz lines, you generall want to place the chord tones on the downbeat, and the passing tones on the offbeat, and with a seven-note phrase, that isn't possible if you're playing it as straight 8ths, so we'll add a single chromatic note to the scale, to create an eighth note phrase that highlights the notes of a G7!

(G)A(B)C(D)E(F)F#

Play that over a G7 chord, ascending or descending and starting on a chord-tone, and you'll hear the effect. What we have now is actually an arpeggio disguised as a scale, that'll really pin down the tonality of its parent chord!

Hope that all makes sense...

[maskofduality]

i understand it a bit. so about the bebop scales, how do you choose that extra note?

[distressed_romeo]

Originally Posted by maskofduality

i understand it a bit. so about the bebop scales, how do you choose that extra note?

Find the chord tones in the appropriate scale, and add it so those will always be on the downbeats. In a major scale, you'll usually have to place the extra note between the fifth and sixth rather than the seventh and root, as there's already a semitone between those two notes.

[Mikey D]

There are only three 'bebop' scales.

They are created by adding one note as described above in detail.

Major (Tonic) scale:
add a #5th (b6th)

Mixolydian mode:
add a major 7th

Dorian mode:
add a major 3rd

All other scales that are created by adding a note are synthetic scales of varying qualites.

[distressed_romeo]

Originally Posted by Mikey D

There are only three 'bebop' scales.

They are created by adding one note as described above in detail.

Major (Tonic) scale:
add a #5th (b6th)

Mixolydian mode:
add a major 7th

Dorian mode:
add a major 3rd

All other scales that are created by adding a note are synthetic scales of varying qualites.

After a bit of research, you seem to be right, although the Mixolydian and Dorian Bebop scales are actually modes of the same scale, meaning you could play the whole thing over a II-V. The same goes for the Major Bebop, which will also work over a III-VI in the appropriate key.

There are apparently more bebop scales though, some including as many as ten notes, which I think is where Shaun Baxter derived a lot of the ideas in his Guitar Techniques article from (if anyone's curious I'll scan it). Once I have some cash to spare I'm going to order a few books on this from Jazzwise, as this is something I'm having a lot of fun exploring.

I'll keep posting back with more findings.