[Mikey D]

Now as I am taking the 8 string a lot more serious than bass (better not tell my tutors!) I have been listening to a lot more jazz guitarists, like actually listening to what they are doing.

I recently borrowed Pat Martino - Live at Yoshis from an organist friend of mine. I am really interested in organ trios but had never heard this one before and as for Pat, I have only heard a select few tracks of his. But WOW! He learnt to play that well twice, I hope I can do it once.

I checked out his website which has a few scores and transcriptions to download, so I am also definately doing his version of Oleo and Mac Tough.

On further reading on his site I found this!?

Read it!

What are your thoughts on this concept? To me as someone who has an analytical/organised way of thinking, it really clicked and made sense to me...Sucha simple idea. Not sure he is a genius, but it makes a lot of sense...once you have finished that, read Nature of the guitar...some REALLY unusual concepts for learning guitar and I have only scraped on it an hour ago. Gonna give it a good read later in the week when I don't have Lee Konitz heads to learn for lesson!

[distressed_romeo]

Pat Martino is definitely one of the great intellectuals on the guitar. His approach there is a great way of visualising harmony on the guitar. Every time another musician (it's usually classical pianists) makes a bitchy remark about guitarists' sight-reading skills, I just give them a quick explanation of how complex the guitar really is relative to the keyboard or any fifths-tuned stringed instruments, and they change their tune pretty quickly. It's one of the great challenges all guitarists/bassists face, as a lot of things that other instruments take for granted are very difficult to either visualise or execute on the guitar. There've been major advances made this century, but the guitar is still leagues behind other instruments.
Incidentally, while we're talking about this issue, one of the things that most impressed me about Rusty Cooley's playing when I discovered his music wasn't his speed, it was his approach to mapping out the neck, which I think is far in advance of a lot of standard guitar pedagogy, and is something that guitarists of all styles should take the time to study.

Visualising the guitar geometrically, to the extent Martino does is interesting, as I've heard that a lot of master musicians (particularly those with perfect pitch) actually have mild disorders which cause them to equate sounds with other things, such as shapes, or colours. Although it's technically a mental disorder, it apparently helps them visualise and play music...

Oh, and 'Live at Yoshi's' is a killer album. If you're after more Martino, check out 'Think Tank'...

[Mikey D]

Any good place to read about Rusty's visualisation of the neck?

[distressed_romeo]

There's some sample licks on both www.rustycooley.com and www.chopsfromhell.com . If you're serious about it, then I'd recommend any of his instructional things, as they're all great value.

Going back to Pat, have you ever checked out his 'converting to minor' system? At first glance it sounds like a lazy way of viewing the neck, but it yields some incredible sounds if you play with it a bit...

[kung_fu]

I'm on page two at the moment. Very interesting read man. +rep

[Mikey D]

Originally Posted by kung_fu

I'm on page two at the moment. Very interesting read man. +rep

Cheers!

If you like that sort of thing check out saxophonist Steve Coleman's M-Base site here! The reading is a little heavy, but some interesting concepts, i.e. symmetry in music and the musical uses of Fibonacci Numbers and the Golden Mean!

[distressed_romeo]

Didn't Mozart write some music for his Masonic lodge based on principles like this? I've heard 'The Magic Flute' is full of mathematical symbolism...

[Mikey D]

Not sure about the magic flute, but there have been a few investigations in Mozart for this sort of thing; like the use of "the golden mean" in his sonata forms. That is all I know.

[distressed_romeo]

From Wiki's article on 'The Magic Flute'...

The opera is often noted for its prominent Masonic elements. Both Schikaneder and Mozart were Masons and lodge brothers, though the Freemasons were at the time regarded by the public at large as a dangerous and subversive organization. The opera is also heavily influenced by Enlightenment philosophy, and can be regarded as an allegory espousing enlightened absolutism. The Queen of the Night represents irrational-diabolic obscurantism, whereas her antagonist Sarastro symbolises the reasonable sovereign who rules with paternalistic wisdom and enlightened insight. In the end he prevails over the darkness ("The sun's rays drive away the night, destroy the evil power of the dissembler"). But the darkness is by no means frightening and abhorrent, but beautiful, mysterious and fascinating. As an awesome seductress the Queen of the Night is a dangerous power who can only be overcome by knowledge; and since Papageno refers to her as "the Star-flaming Queen" (die Sternflammende Königin), it seems that light is not the exclusive province of the good crowd.

Not strictly mathematical, but IIRC, there's a lot of maths involved in Masonic ideas, so there could be some buried in there somewhere...