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Unread 03-07-2010, 05:32 PM   #1
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Most versatile Hybrid picking method?

Think I got it figured out.

Check my review on the Fred Kelly "Bumblebee" Jazz Picks -

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/gea...ml#post1951379
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Unread 03-07-2010, 08:13 PM   #2
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There's no reason not to experiment with the pinky if it's mainly for chords, as lots of guys use it that way (Holdsworth immediately springs to mind), although if you want to do Brett Garsed-style rolls with the pick and three fingers it'll take a lot of practice.

I'd just practice with it quite honestly. It'll feel wierd at first, but it's perfectly do-able.

Personally, I do a lot of hybrid picking these days, but mostly just with the middle finger for single-note stuff as a way of making awkward picking patterns more logical. I only really use the other two for chords and double-stops.

Define 'well-adjusted'...

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Unread 03-08-2010, 12:23 AM   #3
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I haven't gotten around to using it myself yet, but I think Steve Morse does quite a bit of that sort of thing (along with some great regular picking).
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Unread 03-08-2010, 05:30 AM   #4
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yeh I was thinking mainly for chords, but it'd be nice someday to eventually develope the sweeping/rolls style of Brett Garsed..

But mainly just chordal stuff. Being able to comp some stuff out while improvising with a pick, would be nice.
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Unread 03-08-2010, 10:46 AM   #5
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I would say Tommy Emmanuel is a master of hybrid picking, along with the country guys like Danny Gatton and Johnny Hiland. Emmanuel uses a thumb pick, but he pretty much uses it like people use a normal pick in hybrid picking.
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Unread 03-08-2010, 11:00 AM   #6
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ive thought about that, using a thumb pick.. but I dunno. I'd like to keep my conventional picking way.
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Unread 03-08-2010, 01:14 PM   #7
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Todd Duane's instructional for Chops From Hell has some good hybrid picking licks too. And very fast.
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Unread 03-09-2010, 11:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickCormier View Post
ive thought about that, using a thumb pick.. but I dunno. I'd like to keep my conventional picking way.
I appreciate that, but also urge you to try it You may have already seen my thread here;
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/mus...and-metal.html

My main concern was also that I didn't want to lose what I already had with picking. Granted it took a while to get used to it but less than 2 weeks later I can play everything I ever played before with a thumb pick, with or without gripping with the index finger. I'm really glad I got into this.

What you said about using your pinky - I decided to do that too on my quest to 're-learn' guitar with a thumbpick. This wasn't so necessary as I would already be freeing up my index finger, but I now have all 5 to use and it's brilliant. Definately try using your pinky. It feels SO awkward at first but I am currently learning On Impulse by AAL and really getting used to it.
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Unread 03-10-2010, 05:29 AM   #9
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I'm looking at this rather interesting resource:

Gustavo Assis-Brasil

Guitar Techniques

His book is recommended by such luminaries as Brett Garsed and Carl Verheyen...

“Gustavo’s book is probably the most comprehensive study of hybrid picking I’ve seen. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in this technique.”
BRETT GARSED, virtuoso guitarist
__________________________________________________ _________________________
“Hybrid picking is the most expressive form of electric guitar playing there is. Gustavo’s book takes the mystery out of it and lays out a complete and simple method to gain control of the right hand fingers and the pick simultaneously. I highly recommend it!”
CARL VERHEYEN, virtuoso guitarist



While raping a bear in Yellowstone and snorting coke out of a freshly-dead baby's skull, I finally felt that I had found my calling and built a time machine out of Iraqi WMDs and LOTS OF HEMP WHOA. Using this time machine I went back in time and shot JFK from outer ....ing space. I am now your god - Jeff
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Unread 03-12-2010, 07:08 AM   #10
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I bought a thumb pick and its interesting, I do like how it wraps around your thumb so no slipping, and you can still use it as a normal pick (index finger on) so in that sense, Im digging it.. but this one is too big, my thumb has to be almost a cm away from the strings, which is odd after a year of playing thumb on the string. If I can find one with a closer tip, I think this will work well.

Also started using my pinky doing some 5-finger arpeggios.. It has some issues when doing two notes on the high E string like most metal "sweeps", cause your pinky either has to hit it twice, or the ring hit it the 2nd time, screwing up your 5-finger string setup.. Anyone know the best way to accommodate for this? From what I can see, using a finger twice (alternate picking style) is the best way.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 07:29 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by NickCormier View Post
I bought a thumb pick and its interesting, I do like how it wraps around your thumb so no slipping, and you can still use it as a normal pick (index finger on) so in that sense, Im digging it.. but this one is too big, my thumb has to be almost a cm away from the strings, which is odd after a year of playing thumb on the string. If I can find one with a closer tip, I think this will work well.

Also started using my pinky doing some 5-finger arpeggios.. It has some issues when doing two notes on the high E string like most metal "sweeps", cause your pinky either has to hit it twice, or the ring hit it the 2nd time, screwing up your 5-finger string setup.. Anyone know the best way to accommodate for this? From what I can see, using a finger twice (alternate picking style) is the best way.
Google 'bumblebee pick'; they're basically jazz IIIs with the thumbpick's loop.

Define 'well-adjusted'...

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Unread 03-12-2010, 07:37 AM   #12
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hm cheapest I could find on ebay (and if i recall, the main site is UK?) is $3.50 US a pick before shipping.. for one of them. (shipping $2.50) hmm.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 08:46 AM   #13
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Are you looking to be the greatest hybrid picker? Then I guess the thumb pick is the way to go.

I think you are on the right track, incorporate the pinky. I Started using my other fingers to "pick" chords, like Allan Holdsworth, I did it just trying to match his tone, but I didn't know he was actually doing the same thing.

Then, for lines, I am good at string skipping, it its the shreddy 3nps ideas, but for wacky intervalic ideas, I use the fingers and pick.

To get used to using all three other fingers, I found an idea like this is pretty cool sounding and works on them all. Each new pair of strings is another finger, so first is pick and M, next is pick and R, next is pick and P.

|---------------------------------------------------
|---------------------------------------------------
|--------------------------------------12----9----10
|--------------------12----9----10------------------
|----12----8----10----------------------------------
|--8----10---12----8----10---12----8----10---12---

That was in C major, but putting it into other modes, like locrian:

|-----------------------------------------------
|-----------------------------------------------
|----------------------------------11---8----10
|------------------11---8----10---------------
|----11---8----9------------------------------
|--8----9---11---8----9---11----8----9---11---

Things get a little trickier with the left hand for different shapes.

another thing I found helped was a counterpoint idea:

|--13-12-13-10-13-8-13----13----13----13----13---13----13----13---13----13----13--
|----------------------12----10---------------------------------------------------
|----------------------------------12----10----9----------------------------------
|---------------------------------------------------12----10----9-----------------
|--------------------------------------------------------------------12----10----8
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

|--13----13----13--
|------------------
|------------------
|------------------
|------------------
|-----12----10----8

For this one, I start with alt picking, then for the B+e I use pick and M, then for G+e I use either the M or R, then the D+e I use the M, then A+e is R or P, then the last E+e is always P.

Then move it to a new mode or down the neck to coordinate the left and right hand all together.

Then make up new ones.

In terms of licks, depending on the style you are looking for, different guys use it differently. Steal his or her licks! haha
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Unread 03-12-2010, 08:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by distressed_romeo View Post
Google 'bumblebee pick'; they're basically jazz IIIs with the thumbpick's loop.
Indeed, these are the ones I tried in my thumbpick thread. I chose them because they looked like they would be most similar to a normal pick. You'll probably need the Large size though (I do and I don't consider myself to have wide thumbs). One problem I did find moving from normal to large size was exactly what you said - the pick was sticking out further. This wasn't a problem for me except it made pinch harmonics slightly harder.

Don't be afraid to modify your thumbpicks - it seems a lot of people do! You could cut and file the pick down. I havn't found the need to, but I have been cutting the thumb strap shorter and heating it to the shape of my thumb.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 09:04 AM   #15
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Well.. I spent an hour sanding down one of those plastic thumbpicks, to around the size of my Jazz III. It kinda works better but it was really hard to get the edges smooth so it kinda catches on the strings.. also the thumb part is too small for my thumb so it hurts abit =[

I guess finding the right thumb pick is a really important part of this.. I do like the idea of the Fred Kelly bumblebee picks, where its basically just a thumb attachment into a normal Jazz III.. I might try that with like a plastic wristband or something, since I cant find any of the FKBB's in North America under $7 shipped for one. And im impatient, want to start working on this technique like today =[

I do find that the ability to play even faster with just your thumb, because you just do like a quick flutter of your thumb for alternate picking, rather than having to move your whole hand/multiple fingers (talking about single note runs).. So in that sense, its interesting/potentially deadly speedwise.. Of course, since my muscle memory is crap with just my thumb right now its super sloppy, but with some work it could be pretty damn amazing..

Getting the power for rhythm stuff (powerchord riffing on Megadeth or etc) is hard though, it just sounds abit weak.. but if I grasp my index finger on the underside, I can still get it (other than the awkwardness of the crappy pick im using, which should be solved once I get a good one).. so it has insane versatility and large potential. Almost makes me mad I have like 60 normal picks around, but only one thumbpick =[
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Unread 03-12-2010, 10:27 AM   #16
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Talking of "thumb flicking" while picking....it doesn't stop Danny Joe Carter ripping it up so stick with it - could turn out to be an awesome turn of events and a nice way to develop your own style.

Possibly bears mentioning that the Scotty Anderson video might provide you with some ideas as well

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Unread 03-12-2010, 01:39 PM   #17
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yea Scotty anderson is pretty awesome. It'd be great to get to that level.

I'll work on it, hopefully I can find some nice thumb picks somewhere, I might blow the money on those Bumblebee ones, just its pricy.. The cheapest place in North America can get me them for $3 each, with $10 shipping on anything under 5 lbs.. so i could get like.. 10 of them for $40 or so.. hmm lol.
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Unread 03-12-2010, 02:05 PM   #18
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yea Scotty anderson is pretty awesome. It'd be great to get to that level.

I'll work on it, hopefully I can find some nice thumb picks somewhere, I might blow the money on those Bumblebee ones, just its pricy.. The cheapest place in North America can get me them for $3 each, with $10 shipping on anything under 5 lbs.. so i could get like.. 10 of them for $40 or so.. hmm lol.
Can't be bothered to do the math but if you didn't alread find it, here's their website where I bought mine. Fred Kelly Picks: Products Page $16 for 4 picks to the U.K, not sure aobut the U.S
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Unread 03-12-2010, 07:46 PM   #19
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yea I might buy some of those bumblebee picks.. but theres so many difference sizes on the website.. Whats up with all those? Theres like 30 there, but none have any description of the thickness/anything..

Care to comment guys? Are they actually basically just Jazz III's with a thumb attachment? How much of the "pick" do you get near your thumb? Right now, I shaved my plastic one down so its about.. 5mm off my thumb's edge.. Can I get at least that close/closer with these bumblebee picks?

The reason im kinda hesitant, I think if I get them and they are like more than 5mm from my thumb, im going to have to be sanding them down.. Which would be fine but at $4 a pick, thats not exactly a fun investment, since when you sand a pick down its more prone to corrosion, not to mention potentially losing them/etc.. Pretty big pick investment.
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Unread 03-13-2010, 05:16 PM   #20
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so any comments on those bumblebee picks size/etc? How much mm's is between the edge of your thumb and the tip?
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Unread 03-14-2010, 06:53 AM   #21
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I bought the Bumblebee Jazz Mediums. These are about 1mm thick picks with a thumbstrap attatchment. The adjustment on the pick has about 7mm travel. At minimum (where I use it) it was 4mm out from my thumb. At maximum (4+7) = 11mm.

The 4mm was great for me, but the Jazz Mediums were too tight around my thumb. I heated the pick up to shape it to my thumb, but while more comfortable, it was still too tight.

I ordered Bumblebee Jazz Medium large - the same thing but with a larger thumbstrap. Much better However the way it was designed with the larger strap does mean that even adjusted to minimum, it sticks out about 6mm, so that might be an issue for you.

For the record, I don't think my thumbs are very big. A very rough measurement - 22mm across, and 17mm deep, where I wear the pick. Even with the larger pick, I still found heating it to greatly increase comfort - and both picks needed the thumbstrap shortening (I snipped 5mm off and cleaned it with a nail file) to stop it getting caught on up-sweeps.
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Unread 03-15-2010, 02:44 AM   #22
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Back to the hybrid picking thing...
...I would definitely try using my pinky, especially for chords.

I've been using my middle and ring finger for years now and I'm trying to get my pinky going. Before I was just to lazy...but with a little work it gets going...

About the sweep thing were you have more than one note on high string. I do jump out with the pick.
Example,
|-------8--11--8---------------------------------------
|----9------------9-----------------------------------
|--8-----------------8---------------------------------
|--------------------------------------------------
|-----------------------------------------
|-----------------------------------------

I would hybrid pick the first three notes then jump and hit the 11th fret note with the pick, do a pull off and then go back to hybrid picking.

PS: I have some hybrid picking lessons on my youtube page under "Guitar for lazy people"

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Unread 03-15-2010, 09:13 AM   #23
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That doesnt seem very productive, to be honest.. Because it is much slower than a double pluck + theres high potential for hitting the wrong string when jumping 4 or 5 strings at a time..

Its much easier just to double pluck with your ring/pinky, and works better in the long run imo.

What I seen some video of a pro (forget who, Garsed or Someone) they just shifted their fingers up one, so if they needed two hits on the high E, which landed first on the pinky.. They would play the 2nd note with their ring, and move up again and just making the pick hit the last note twice. Seems logical, but I think im going to work on double plucks with my pinky/ring, gives almost a flamenco style.
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Unread 03-16-2010, 03:34 AM   #24
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Quote:
That doesnt seem very productive, to be honest..
Well, you're absolutely right. From the standpoint of "less movement" etc. it is not practical. It's just one of those things that came naturally for me.

Oh, and for stuff like this:
|-----------------------10-------------------------
|-------------------12-------------------------------
|---------11----14-----------------------------------------
|-----12--------------------------------------------
|--14---------------------------------------
|-----------------------------------------
where you have two groups of three it works nicely as you have to switch positions with your picking hand anyway.

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Unread 04-23-2010, 09:46 AM   #25
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Quote:
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I bought the Bumblebee Jazz Mediums. These are about 1mm thick picks with a thumbstrap attatchment. The adjustment on the pick has about 7mm travel. At minimum (where I use it) it was 4mm out from my thumb. At maximum (4+7) = 11mm.

The 4mm was great for me, but the Jazz Mediums were too tight around my thumb. I heated the pick up to shape it to my thumb, but while more comfortable, it was still too tight.

I ordered Bumblebee Jazz Medium large - the same thing but with a larger thumbstrap. Much better However the way it was designed with the larger strap does mean that even adjusted to minimum, it sticks out about 6mm, so that might be an issue for you.

For the record, I don't think my thumbs are very big. A very rough measurement - 22mm across, and 17mm deep, where I wear the pick. Even with the larger pick, I still found heating it to greatly increase comfort - and both picks needed the thumbstrap shortening (I snipped 5mm off and cleaned it with a nail file) to stop it getting caught on up-sweeps.
I finally bought some of those picks.. Look at my review in the Gear section:

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/gea...ml#post1951379
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