[Durero]

This is a great thread with so many well thought out and informative posts!

I'm going to nitpick a bit on GivenToFly's otherwise excellent post (+rep!).

I'm also mainly a classical guitarist although I have studied flamenco seriously, and I have to disagree with your opinion that classical guitars are more practical or versatile than flamenco guitars.

I used to think exactly that before I studied flamenco but now I own both types of guitar and I have to say that I find the flamenco to be slightly more versatile, but not much.

I'd say that anyone who is a serious classical player probably could not bring themselves to play their pieces on a flamenco guitar because of the extremely bright, snappy tone and dismal sustain - in other words traditional classical guitar music sounds like shit on a flamenco.

And it's exactly so for trying to play serious traditional flamenco music on a classical - the tone is much too bass-heavy, rumbly, unclear, and far too quiet to be heard in a traditional performance context with singers & dancers - in other words, it would also sound like shit.

The reason I feel that my flamenco guitar is slightly more versatile than my classical is that it has a tap plate on it. Therefore it is possible for me to play both classical & flamenco on it, but on my classical I can only play classical unless I'm willing to destroy the soundboard when I tap on it with my fingernails (golpe) while playing flamenco.

Furthermore, although I would never do this in a serious performance context, I can play classical pieces on my flamenco and get a bit less horrible tone out of it by positioning my picking hand closer to the neck to get the warmest tone I can. Listeners who are not familiar with classical or flamenco guitar would likely have no idea how far away the tone is from a good classical guitar.

So as I say, I think a flamenco could be slightly more versatile, but not in any serious or very meaningful way.

btw the strings on a flamenco are usually the same as classical guitar strings, although some players may prefer a slightly lighter gage.

That's my 2¢, and again I thought your post was really helpful and informative GTF.



So basically I'd recommend a flamenco guitar to you Neon Black since you've mentioned Paco De Lucia () and flamenco a lot in this thread.
Best of luck!

[neon_black88]

Originally Posted by BigM555

Edit: Just doing some research on the Almans and Yamaha options you noted. The Yamaha seems to be much better reviewed and construction and finish reports are sound. Pitty it won't be available in your area for another 6 months. Maybe ebay? Have you checked around with many Aussy stores?

Did you find any reviews for the Almansa 413 flamenco? Today I went to a store and tryed a few classical Almansa guitars, the 401 the 403 the 434S and some 3000 dollar model. They all felt GREAT (remember ive only played shit classicals) and the 3000 dollar model was noticeably louder, but thats all I could tell really. Well I really liked the feel of the Almansas so it seems a good way to go, its a shame I cant try the yamaha to compare. If the Almansa 413 Flamenco feels and sounds as good as the guitars I played today ill be happy with it. I think my next step will be to go into another guitar shop and play the Admira Flamenco and see how that compares.

[dpm]

Flamenco guitars are built lighter than classicals and with different woods and slightly different geometry. Flamenco players generally go for a significantly lower action than classical dudes too, as a little buzz here and there is perfectly acceptable. As Durero says the flamenco sound is brighter and more cutting with less sustain. Paco de Lucia (I believe) was the first to use what's known as 'flamenco negra' guitars - flamenco construction with classical woods (rosewood sides), basically a ballsier sounding guitar than typical.

For $500 you're not going to get anything exceptional and at this stage you're not going to be hearing the all the nuances. The most important thing is to try all the guitars in your price range and get the one which sounds and feels best to you. Don't make judgements based on brand, or by having played one example of a particular model. Spanish made guitars in particular tend to be quite inconsistent so you might find two or more of the same instrument that are significantly different.

[neon_black88]

Originally Posted by dpm

Flamenco guitars are built lighter than classicals and with different woods and slightly different geometry. Flamenco players generally go for a significantly lower action than classical dudes too, as a little buzz here and there is perfectly acceptable. As Durero says the flamenco sound is brighter and more cutting with less sustain. Paco de Lucia (I believe) was the first to use what's known as 'flamenco negra' guitars - flamenco construction with classical woods (rosewood sides), basically a ballsier sounding guitar than typical.

For $500 you're not going to get anything exceptional and at this stage you're not going to be hearing the all the nuances. The most important thing is to try all the guitars in your price range and get the one which sounds and feels best to you. Don't make judgements based on brand, or by having played one example of a particular model. Spanish made guitars in particular tend to be quite inconsistent so you might find two or more of the same instrument that are significantly different.

Thanks, the 'flamenco negra' guitars thing is quite interesting! By the way my price range has gone up to about 750. At the moment im looking at an Almansa 434 spruce, an Almansa 413 Flamenco, the yamaha CG171SF, or the Admira flamenco. So far all ive played is the 434, which was nice but I really want to try a proper flamenco to feel the difference.

[dpm]

Not sure if you've been here but - Classical guitars

[neon_black88]

Originally Posted by dpm

Not sure if you've been here but - Classical guitars

Yeah thats one of the places im going to try the Admira flamenco, also the place that said there would be a 6 month wait on the Yamaha

[neon_black88]

In one corner we have the Almansa 434,an all around classical with the specs to boot. Spruce solid top, rosewood back and sides, ebony fretboard ect.

699!!!

In the other corner we have the Almansa 413, sycamore back and sides.

Hmmmmmm. Would a spruce top classical be good enough for playing solo flamenco? I think im gana go with the 434.

[dpm]

Whichever one you feel is better in terms of sound and value, play them both and see

[neon_black88]

I wouldent be able to play the 413 before I buy it, ive played the 434 and it was great, but every classical ive played is a piece of shit so thats not saying much. Im guessing the 413 will still be quality, there lowest model the 401 still felt and sounded great to me. Id buy the classical if I didnt prefer flamenco so much over classsical music. I wish there was just a nice, happy medium!

[neon_black88]

Update: 99 Percent sure im getting this



Yay! Its had an after market pickup so theres some flexibility there, its all solid wood constuction and thats nearly impossible to find for under 1000US let alone 1000AUS. It previous owner was one of the biggest flamenco players in melbourne and he gave me the thumbs up for it so im pretty happy to find this, and not have to settle on something crappy. Its a Matsuka M40 Flamenco, its hand made and apperently a copy of the Ramirez Flamenco. Yayyy