[Bartok]

Originally Posted by jacksonplayer

Me too!

I'm strictly a modal player, and I really just use the straight-ahead church modes. I rarely find the need to go into altered scales (Hungarian minor, etc.), and when I'm confronted with an altered chord I tend to find a 'regular' mode that fits that particular chord. Lot less stuff to keep in the brain, that way.

I had a good guitar teacher when I started out, but he was teaching me a lot of theory before my chops had a chance to catch up. I wish I had gone on to study jazz theory when I was young and had lots of time to absorb it. I can still pick up bits here and there, but as I get older I want to use my time to actually write/record music and polish what I already know, rather than delve into entirely new areas.

My chord theory is a massive hole in my playing, I really need to work on it- I keep writing riffs, then have to go back to the scale books to find which chords fit which is a really crappy way to be :/
Hungarian minor is worth learning though- it makes far more musical sense to me than major (and most other scales too) because it has so much symmetry, there is only a handful of different shapes per string involved (3 notes per string) and they just repeat over and over so if you think vertically as well as horizontally, it's almost impossible to get lost. It also fits with so many other scales, when you view things chromatically, the Hungarian seems to make far more sense than the major scale as it contains so many triads. Personally, I also find the modes are more individual- the colour is there in each major mode, but to me, the hungarian modes have a more recognisable individual colour and that inspires me when I write riffs and solos etc. I think it's my most used scale
I had the same thing with teachers though- my last teacher was an amazing musician, his classical, metal and fusion/jazz stuff was all amazing, but he quite often assumed a bit too much of me and it was just too much information in one go. I have to find a lot of the stuff on my own, then realise I was told it 6 months ago, but it doesn't mean anything until I have a way to make it real in my own head.

[JBroll]

That's also why I have the easiest time using diminished fragments between major and melodic minor modes. Diminished is perfectly symmetrical and it's impossible to get lost if you can find so much as one of the 'root' notes and orient yourself around it.

I also view three- and four-note chords easier in terms of diminished chords being raised one way or another, rather than a major or a minor being changed - for example, a dominant 7 being a diminished chord with one note lowered to the root.

When I view scales I find it easier to swallow six-note 'clusters' rather than the whole 3NPS position. If I just remember the first six notes of every mode, and then on the 'seventh note' I just go to the first six notes of the next lowest mode, I'm memorizing and planning a lot less. That can be applied to any scale that can be made conveniently into a 3NPS scale, and it's helped me out quite a lot.

Jeff

[Bartok]

Originally Posted by JBroll

That's also why I have the easiest time using diminished fragments between major and melodic minor modes. Diminished is perfectly symmetrical and it's impossible to get lost if you can find so much as one of the 'root' notes and orient yourself around it.

The lack of tonality in diminished can be really useful- as it doesn't have any real tonal centre, it can be used to modulate from more or less anywhere to anywhere else. I find it kind of 'resets' the pallet- how ever strong the tonality of your starting mode, chuck in some diminished runs and I tend to forget and tonality of where I was before. One of my favourite patterns is ascending 3 notes per string, major or minor diminished 1, 3, dim5, on each string, descending across the strings (e.g. starting 12th fret on e, e, major or minor 3 major being my favourite, then dim5, then on the 2nd string, taking Bb 11th fret as the root, then maj/min 3 and so on). Octave displacement can give a similar effect, something I pinched from the Buckethead instructional video on You Tube, I like the sound of 1, #8, natural 2nd, b8, then make nat 2nd the root and repeat up to where ever I want to be.

[Garry Goodman]

Originally Posted by Luan

Well, I learned the song Loro by Gismonti, and I'm trying to improvise over the chords of it.
It is hard as hell to understand the chord progression.
Here are the chords:http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...ction/Loro.jpg
I know that there are some secondary dominants.
What do I play over A-(b5) (9)?
D13 (b9) is V7/III right? but it has a natural 13, so I will have to play mixolydian b9 13, right?
The same thing over G 13 (b9)?
What do I play over C sus4 (b9)?
What do I play over A-(b5)(9)?
Eb/Db means that it is a Eb7, but it sounds better if it is Ebmaj to me. That is weird..

Really thanks a lot for those that can help me!

My perspective:
A G13(b9) or any 13(b9 ) is a member of the V13 chord family.

This family includes G7(b9) , G7(+9) G7(b9+9), G7(+11,b9), G11(b9) , G7(+11,+9), G11(+9,b9) and a few more. It is associated with the natural 11 forms of the chord.
If the chord is G13(b9) ,you can use F melodic minor. You don't wany the dominant 8 note scale(1/2-1-1/2-1 etc.). Here is why-
The chord is spelled G (b) D F Ab C and E. Rearrange these note horizontally and you get F G Ab C D E (b is usually omitted because the B and c form a minor ninth interval and can sound bad). The Bb would be added for a +9 such as G13(b9+9). So use a melodic minor starting on the note a whole step below the root of the chord. D13(b9) would use C melodic minor.

The minor 7,flat 5 chord such as Ami7(b5) is also called a "half diminished" chord. It is it's own chord family. Ami11(b5), Ami9 (b5) etc. Some scale sources for this chord are C melocic minor, Bb major scale, A locrian and G harmonic minor.

A good way to figure this out is to spell the chord, like A C Eb G B, whichich is A mi 9(b5). Then check those notes against scale tones.

C (d) Eb (f) G A B C or C melodic minor scale. When the 4th or sus is added, in this case a D, the scale still works.
I hope this helps