[David]

God fuckin damn am I getting annoyed with some of these replies to my posts in the last few days. This is like the 6th time I'm going to make something bigger because of people's inabilities to read.

Originally Posted by MYSELF

I'm one of the only people here who thinks growling is pointless. On other forums, I've been told that James LaBrie has less talent than Nergal... ummm... low talking vs. years of practice to hit notes perfectly, with insane vocal lines... talent is one thing... preference is another.

Since this isn't exactly clear to some people, I thought I'd explain myself.

Thinking, is an opinion. To too many of you people, opinions aren't allowed, and we have to be hippies. * David is not a hippy.

Preference, is what you choose to listen to, because it is more pleasing to the ear (for you personally). Talent, is the amount of skill, time, complexity, and length of achievement something takes, compared to the rest of people doing it. Talent, doesn't necessarily mean it's your preference. Preference, despite popular belief on many onilne forums, DOES very from person to person. I know what you're thinking, I was shocked too when I found that one out.

Originally Posted by Shaman

I see you don't like extreme metal, fine, but don't go around saying that growling etc. is pointless, mmkay. You don't see me saying that James LaBrie's singing is pointless, just because I don't like it. It takes balls to say this: "I don't personally like it." And just leave it there. That's the mature way of handling things. Peace and out

I respect your opinion.

And shaman, point out to me where I said this:

("The fact that you don't like something, doesen't mean that everybody else that think otherwise, are wrong")

I didn't reply like that, and infact, your reply was more along the lines of that than mine.

* David would like to report himself, but that little ! box isn't there on his posts...




On another note:

Originally Posted by Makelele

I haven't heard Nergal, but I know that growling does require talent and practice too. If you just scream, then you'll ruin your voice really, really quickly. It may not require as much practice as Labrie's style, but growling without the right technique is not good, and it doesn't sound good, either.

It doesn't take nearly as long to train your voice to growl as it does to sing like LaBrie. That's all I was getting at.



And Drew, yeah! I'm glad to see someone else liking LaBrie's album! I think what a lot of people are doing, is listening to teh first 30 seconds of each song, and then going NOPE! next song... Just like all the DT style songs, there's always a 30-40 second intro of pointlessness. As soon as the chorus kicks in though, man are those amazing. The first minute and a half, or 2 minutes of each song are pretty average on that CD, but it all is to help build up the tension to the chorus, where it just explodes.

[Shaman]

Well, you never said that. That was not a quote from you....

That's just a quote I like to throw in when there's a discussion like this going on.

But seriously, I am glad to see a mutual respect

And hey, EMG's rule

[Drew]

Hey David, deep breath, dude, and ease up on the bolded large font.

Rest of you, please let's not let this deteriorate into a debate about whether or not growling has a place in a given genre, or whether or not a genre NEEDS it to sound complete, or anything like that. It's music. Nice thing about music is, there's so much of it. Now, everyone take a deep breath, kiss, and make up.

Like I said, the first song sounds like a bad modern Metallica caricature, but some of the other stuff ("In Too Deep" and "Slightly out of Reach" most notably) is excellent.

[Jerich]

I'd like to focus more on the good singers for what ever reason they appeal to me....and links to check em' out...


Derek Bonner -Lilitu www.myspace.com/lilitu "Dark haired Girl"
Kelly Sundown-Outworld www.myspace.com/outworld "War Cry"
James Rivera-Helstar/destiny's end/Seven Witches/Vicious Rumors
www.myspace.com/helstar "Baptized In Blood"
Fabio/Giorgia- Chaoswave www.myspace.com/Chaoswave "Indeifferent"
Hubi Meisel -Soloist www.myspace.com/hubimeisel "Red Oracle"
Scott Jefferys -CONFESSOR (Note Chris Take Notice) www.myspace.com/confessorband "The Downside"
Stefan Hertich-Darkseed www.myspace.com/darkseedband "Forever darkness"
Benhur Vieira Lima- Ynis Vitrin www.myspace.com/ynisvitrin "Remains of Life"
Eddy-NovAct www.myspace.com/novact "Hope and Fear"
Andy-Symphorce www.myspace.com/symphorcepower "NoWhere"
Ray alder-Redemption/fateswarning www.myspace.com/thebandredemption "Threads"

just a few.....

[Oogadee Boogadee]

Here's an interesting question for some possible interesting discussion that could possibly go to a possibly completely fictitious hell:

Many do think growling is pointless.

However, what other vocal effect/method/tone/etc could achieve the same affect or feel in a musical passage that normally would have growling?

In other words, growling would be pointless if say, a more melodic and more enunciated vocal option were available to achieve the same effect.

Here's my take: I've always thought of growling as another instrument. An instrument apart from the clean vocal instrument. That's how I can listen to bands that sing about things that I don't necessarily agree with. For example, Nun Butcher could be singing about sodomizing school children with creeping, rusty, meat, and I wouldn't agree with the message. But, if the vocal method sounds cool (like Sauron in Decapitated), then it makes me feel a certain way - it helps paint a picture (not necessarily of the one being sung about) that a non-gutteral voice would probably fail to achieve.

I am definitely digging the heaviest of bands with 100% melodic singing though, such as Nevermore. If anybody knows of an extreme metal band with melodic singing and little to no growling, I'd be very happy.

[Metal Ken]

There's one that they used on the Awaken the guardian from Fates Warning, that sounded totally insane.. they used a vocal distorter that tuned john's voice down, like, an octave, and of course distorted it. mixed under his normal voice, it sounded insanely evil. Course, its not the same as death metal vocals or anything either.

I dont usually think of extreme vox as another instrument, nor do i think of a voice as an instrument in the traditional sense. But the way i do look at it.. i think of clean vocals and extreme vocals like the difference between clean guitar and distortion guitar. Some different musical situations require one or the other or both or neither.

[noodles]

Telling vocalists that they can't growl is like telling guitarists to limit themselves to one tone. Why shouldn't vocalists be allowed a broad sonic pallet from which to draw from?

I find the growlers that do it well are every bit as entertaining as powerful clean singers. The ones that can blend it all together are the epitome of metal awesomeness.

I could never imagine a band like Opeth without the death vox. Into Eternity would lose its impact without the screams and growls.

[Jerich]

wow it has really turned to a pissing contest on what style of vocals are btter.that's CRAZY...it is an artists vision and right to be able to exspress themselves either singing or Grimace vocals...to each have thier effect..
I equally enjoy Ross Dolans Vocals in IMMOLATION as I enjoy Gus From ADAGIO's vocals....would i like the rolls reversed no...it comes down to the listener i think and ever listener has thier own Opinion...i think Manyard Blows and Chris Cornell blows...do i like the music sure...but not the vocals....

[Vince]

back on track...

Best vocals:

Bjorn Strid (Soilwork) - I just think he has the best voice in modern metal

Sebastian Bach - His screams in "Wasted Time" are some of the best metal screams ever, even if the song is a ballad and 15 years old

Natasha Whatshertits from Nightwish - Great unique vocals, but a stupid bitch

Zak Stevens - Every Savatage album from Edge of Thorns to Wake of Magellan is great, and Circle II Circle isn't bad for 'Eye of the Tiger' style rock.

James Hetfield, circa 1990-1996. His vocals on the black album & the tours those years were just great. His vocals on Load were the album's only saving point, but you could tell he was beginning to get lost in the yeah yeahs and the yeah woahs at that point.

Ray Allen (Fates Warning) - Best vocals in prog IMO. Lots of emotion and always on key.

James LaBrie - yeah, everyone rags on him, but he's been the best part of their last few albums IMO, and his solo works have been better than some recent DT discs (excluding about 4 songs on Octavarium, which IMO are just fucking great).


Worst vocals:

Drew Peterson (j/k )

Billy Corgan, Kurt Cobain, and all the rest of those damn off-key mid 90s singers.

Peter Steele - I honestly like some of their music, especially October Rust, and Steele has a great voice when he uses it, but he uses a little too much Dracula in his voice for me. It's like the count from Sesame Street started a band. I'd love to hear him count into a song. "One, ha ha ha, two, ha ha ha, one two tree foooor!"

All the black metal guys. It's just taste, and I know a lot of people like it. Hell, my wife loves the stuff just for the anger. I just can't get into it. I love a good scream every now and then too, hell our album we're recording has a ton of screaming on it, but my tastes in screams are more in the John Bush, James Hetfield vein. Melody and power, not just ripping out the most insane thing you can.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by desertdweller

Worst vocals:

Drew Peterson (j/k )

No, it's true. I walk the line between a drunken Kurt Cobain and Bob Dylan with a head cold. You don't think I LIKE instrumental music, do you?