[eaeolian]

Originally Posted by Naren

Dude, I thought you were all about the Swedish and German metal bands that have creepy Fantasy artwork on their album covers and sing all about slaying dragons and journeying across frozen wildernesses to the castle of the fair maiden Gwenendelinia.

Personally I find that stuff very corny and, thus, am not a fan.

If the music's good enough, I can ignore it. Otherwise it annoys the crap out of me, too.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by eleven59

Fuck complex arrangements. If the song sucks, the song sucks. You could be the best player in the world, but if you can't write a song it doesn't mean shit to me.

Originally Posted by Hatebreeder

Conversely, I dont care if you do write good songs. if you cant play for anything, it doesn't mean shit to me ;D

Playing devil's advocate for a moment here - I think you're both right, to a certain extent. I've heard absolutely brilliabt simple songs, I've heard horrendous simple songs, I've heard horrendous senseless complex songs, and I've heard absolutely gorgeous complex music. I think it's really a question of a songwriter understanding his or her limitations on their instrument of choice, and both working within those limitations and, if possible,finding ways to make those limitations strengths.

On the "simple" side, take anything by Tom Waits - "Jesus Gonna Be Here" off Bone Machine is a perfect example. This horrible, scratchy voice, a walking upright bass line, and an occasional hacked up "slide into an E twice" note on an acoustic slide guitar, but it's so fuckin' primitive that it's just a brutally powerful performance. Meanwhile, you have Devin Townsend - Layers upon layers of interlocking washes of sound all adding up to this chaotic wall that just washes over you aqnd crushes you - the same effect is created, just from a totally different direction.

I think a perfect example of "making your weaknesses strengths" in songwriting is Nick Drake's "Cello Song." It's on my short list of favorite songs ever written, worth a download to anyone unfamiliar. It's just a fingerstyle acoustic guitar, a vocal, a cello, and some hand percussion. Nick was a rhythmically solid, if not overly complex, fingerstylist, but he wasn't blessed with what anyone would call a "powerful" voice. So, you've got this driving, percussive 3-chord I-IV-V (though I think the V is inverted over the 5th, so maybe like a ii would be a better representation), with a haunting cello melody in the background, some minimalist hand drum and tamborine stuff in the background, and this haunting, airy vocal drifting over the top. Add in some great lyrics, and it's just a perfectly executed performance.

Food for thought...

-D

[Metal Ken]

Originally Posted by eaeolian

If the music's good enough, I can ignore it. Otherwise it annoys the crap out of me, too.

Same. except a few examples, i dont listen to any of the fantasy bands. Songs about dragons, kings, wizards, elves, etc. Piss me off.


Also, Drew -- You make some good points-- A complex band to add to that list -- Cryptopsy. If for nothing else than the None So Vile album.. that album just did wonders for me. Also, Cynic too(sean malone's original band).

[Naren]

Originally Posted by HateBreeder

Same. except a few examples, i dont listen to any of the fantasy bands. Songs about dragons, kings, wizards, elves, etc. Piss me off.

Same here. Although I find it much more funny than actually pissing me off. I'm more in the "Ha ha. Grow up!" mindset than the "These fucking bastards must die at the edge of my 8-foot long battleax I had sharpened for just such an occasion" mindset.

And I agree with the music thing. There are a lot of very very simple songs that I absolutely love. In fact, there is one song that I can think of where the intro, verse, and chorus are composed of just 4 chords. The bridge is just 2 chords and a walkup. No solo, nothing complicated. But I love it.

Good music is good music. I happen to really like listening to complicated music with awesome solos, but I also really like really simple music (my favorite style of music used to be hardcore punk. It is still a style of music that I very much like - especially post-hardcore punk - although post-hardcore punk can be kind of complicated, as well as some hardcore punk.)

[Metal Ken]

Originally Posted by Naren

Same here. Although I find it much more funny than actually pissing me off. I'm more in the "Ha ha. Grow up!" mindset than the "These fucking bastards must die at the edge of my 8-foot long battleax I had sharpened for just such an occasion" mindset.

I like to think of it as 3 1/2 mins of my life i cant get back,or that i could have spent listening to something better ;p

[Naren]

Originally Posted by HateBreeder

I like to think of it as 3 1/2 mins of my life i cant get back,or that i could have spent listening to something better ;p

Oh, come on. Your time is not that precious. I'm sure you waste so much time waiting for things, watching useless stuff on TV, watching a bad movie, etc.. Listening to a really stupid Fantasy band song is something you can talk about later in an enjoyable jokable fashion. "Oh, have you ever heard Demon Slayer X of the Frozen Plain? They had lyrics about..."

Granted I could agree if you listened to the whole album that it'd be 1 hour of your life that you can't get back that you could have spent listening to something better. But 3 1/2 minutes is nothing.

Of course, I'm reading into what you said a little too deep.

[Metal Ken]

You are ;p
I mean, though, its just soooo cheesy.. it'd be better if it was tongue in cheek (A la Gwar lyrics sometimes) ... But dude, they take it waaaay too seriously

[Drew]

Originally Posted by HateBreeder

Also, Drew -- You make some good points-- A complex band to add to that list -- Cryptopsy. If for nothing else than the None So Vile album.. that album just did wonders for me. Also, Cynic too(sean malone's original band).

You know, Cynic's been on the "to check out" list for ages - I just have a hard time believing anyone who could write something as great as "emergent" could write a bad album. I've heard a few clips that didn't floor me, but hell, it's Sean Malone. Scratch that, it's Sean Fucking Malone. The man is genius.

-D

[Naren]

Originally Posted by HateBreeder

You are ;p
I mean, though, its just soooo cheesy.. it'd be better if it was tongue in cheek (A la Gwar lyrics sometimes) ... But dude, they take it waaaay too seriously

I completely agree. Gwar has some pretty funny lyrics. But, I find it so pathetic and funny that they are so serious about such incredibly cheesy lyrics. It's almost like the kids who played D&D as kids never really grew. They still listen to nothing but Ronnie James Dio, early 80's fantasy metal bands, and play believe themselves to be in some European middle ages fantasy...

In a way, it's kind of sad.

[eaeolian]

Originally Posted by Drew

You know, Cynic's been on the "to check out" list for ages - I just have a hard time believing anyone who could write something as great as "emergent" could write a bad album. I've heard a few clips that didn't floor me, but hell, it's Sean Malone. Scratch that, it's Sean Fucking Malone. The man is genius.

It boggles my mind that you are still waiting on this. GO GET IT, MAN!