[eaeolian]

Originally Posted by Drew

Though in my defense, let me point out that while even I have to admit there was a lot wrong with the grunge generation, there was also a lot right, and that it's another genre where subsequent imitation has made it far to easy to slag off on the genre's founders. In particular, what turned me on to the genre as a kid was the emotional honesty of the lyricism, and the raw, huge-sounding, very "live" instrument tones.

It pushed those ideas into the mainstream, true. The stuff I was listneing to when grunge hit already had that stuff, and was a lot angrier.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by eaeolian

It pushed those ideas into the mainstream, true. The stuff I was listneing to when grunge hit already had that stuff, and was a lot angrier.

Hey, all I'm saying, between Live's "Throwing Copper" and the Backstreet Boys, which would YOU pick?

(I agree, though, and I still think the single greatest thing we can thank grunge for was getting my generation into guitar and guitar-based music. Sure, guitar was alive and well in the metal world, but most of the kids I went to high school with were listening to MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice, and not "Master of Puppets," when "Nevermind" first came out. It's tough for a lot of guys who weren't there and were already listening to guitar-based music to see this, but as someone who was on the front lines, there was VERY little guitar in pop music in the years immediately before grunge, and while it may have knocked the guitar solo back a couple years, it also may have gone a long way towards saving rock guitar itself).

If it wasn't for Kurt Cobain, I seriously doubt I'd be here today. :/

[Mastodon]

My teacher and I were talking about that whole "shred and technicallity over compostion" thing yesterday after I brought up some videos of him in the 80's shredding.

[eaeolian]

Originally Posted by Drew

Hey, all I'm saying, between Live's "Throwing Copper" and the Backstreet Boys, which would YOU pick?

(I agree, though, and I still think the single greatest thing we can thank grunge for was getting my generation into guitar and guitar-based music. Sure, guitar was alive and well in the metal world, but most of the kids I went to high school with were listening to MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice, and not "Master of Puppets," when "Nevermind" first came out. It's tough for a lot of guys who weren't there and were already listening to guitar-based music to see this, but as someone who was on the front lines, there was VERY little guitar in pop music in the years immediately before grunge, and while it may have knocked the guitar solo back a couple years, it also may have gone a long way towards saving rock guitar itself).

If it wasn't for Kurt Cobain, I seriously doubt I'd be here today. :/

Oh, I don't have a problem with what you're saying - looking at it from a (rock) mainstream point of view, I'd rather have had AIC and Soundgarden than the third-wave hair metal crap like Firehouse, for sure.

[noodles]

Originally Posted by Drew

Have you guys read the entire thing? Noodles, the section you quote was a description of how he was labeled by his critics, not the "unbiased" opinion of the editorial voice.

Oh, I know. It still doesn't make it any less harsh, and I'd go as far to say that the writer let his opinions into the article by way of using the harshest words of the critics. Were I writing an unbiased review, I think I would have worded it a bit different.

If local shows are any indication, grunge is getting swept away in much the same way it swept away 80s music. I see plenty of 15yo kids with power metal shirts, absolutely shredding. The new breed spent the 90s in diapers and grade school, and when they sought out guitar instructors, they found all the old shredders from the 80s teaching in music stores and playing in local bands. They go off, form bands, and shred over everything in site. Those of us who have been gigging for ten, fifteen years get looked up to like gods.

It's a bit weird. It's not like they bash the grunge scene of the nineties (they save their venom for nu-metal). It's just that it doesn't exist to them, and they know nothing about it or the music. I was born in the mid-seventies, and grew up in the eighties, but I still know/listen to/enjoy the music of Led Zepplin, AC/DC, Deep Purple, Rainbow, Black Sabbath, Scorpions, Rush, Mountain, etc.

I think this is a testament to the sad state of the music industry. People are now encouraged to fit certain genres and molds, and to freely bash anything that doesn't fit their view. Meanwhile, people from my generation and back tend to have eclectic CD collections, filled with any type of music that catches our fancy. For me, it is completely logical to listen to Megadeth, Wes Montgomery, Soundgarden, Jimi Hendrix, Lamb of God, Howlin' Wolf, and Pink Floyd, in a CD changer, on random.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by noodles

For me, it is completely logical to listen to Megadeth, Wes Montgomery, Soundgarden, Jimi Hendrix, Lamb of God, Howlin' Wolf, and Pink Floyd, in a CD changer, on random.

You, sir, have excellent taste.

I'm still looking to start a band citing Floyd and Tool as two primary influences - I think it'd be a totally natural melding.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by eaeolian

Oh, I don't have a problem with what you're saying - looking at it from a (rock) mainstream point of view, I'd rather have had AIC and Soundgarden than the third-wave hair metal crap like Firehouse, for sure.

Hey, you know perfectly well that I'm just using this thread as a chance to rant and rave about how the oft-maligned grunge movement was crucial to the development of the contemporary guitar scene...

* Drew cackles like a madman, and staggers off humming "Come as you Are"

[noodles]

Originally Posted by Drew

I'm still looking to start a band citing Floyd and Tool as two primary influences - I think it'd be a totally natural melding.

There would be no Tool without Pink Floyd. Pink Floyd was the band that made it possible for every misunderstood geek to take a lot of drugs and make weird, beautiful music. Tool is just the more modern incarnation, adding the modern edge/agression to the mix. To me, Tool is the band that now carries that torch, and unlike other bands that have taken the torch for a genre, Tool has not dropped it yet (like Metallica).

[Drew]

I agree completely. I'm so fired up for their new album's impending release that I find I can't find words to adequately describe the degree to which I am excited, and, well, look at my post count.

[The Dark Wolf]

Originally Posted by noodles

If local shows are any indication, grunge is getting swept away in much the same way it swept away 80s music.

(Stuff)

For me, it is completely logical to listen to Megadeth, Wes Montgomery, Soundgarden, Jimi Hendrix, Lamb of God, Howlin' Wolf, and Pink Floyd, in a CD changer, on random.

Dave, you fuckin' said it all perfectly again. You and I have remarkably similar (and accurate, I must add) views on things like this. I couldn't agree with what you said here more. You look at things from a big-picture perspective, alot like myself. The historian's point-of-view, if you will. It allows one to get a real understanding of the things at work in social phenomena like this.

Any rate, fuckin' A. Keep preachin', brother!