[damigu]

clipping is a problem with the recording itself, not of the stereo it is played back on.
recordings only have so much headroom. once that is exceeded (which happens all too often in rock and metal recordings these days), the samples get clipped (a very harsh hard limit--which doesn't go beyond the max headroom--results in what is essentially clipping, too). it doesn't matter whether you play it back on a $10,000 audiophile stereo or a $50 boombox, it'll sound loud and the clipping will be apparent even at low volume.
and that's exactly the problem with engineering music to be "loud"--which is what all of the record company execs and radio stations want and expect.

[Zepp88]

I got the CD yesterday, some good songs on it, but god damn it hurts to listen to

And I'd like to add a comment about the bass tracks, they're definetely there, up in the mix, but they have no breathing room what-so-ever and just get swallowed up in everything else.

Greg Fiddelman =

[MerlinTKD]

Originally Posted by Kirk Hammett

Of course, Rick was there for part of that process — when we recorded drums and vocals — but the fact that we were isolated in our studio, working on the songs ourselves, made a big difference, because it kept our sound pure.

Hmmm... maybe it was right to blame the band, after all. Especially since I'd be damned if I'd hire anyone, at any price, and be okay with them 'never being there'. But it sounds like it was just them and the engineers for all of the guitar recording. And Lars' snare is as obnoxious as ever - that's too consistent to possibly be anyone's fault but his own.

[Zepp88]

That's how Rubin works though, I'd really be interested in seeing video of the recording of this album because he's been behind some great stuff, and most bands seem to like him.

[Harry]

Well, a dude I know that bought Death Magnetic recently used the audio gain feature on Winamp, and found the album gain was -13.20, but he said he had some albums that even exceeded -14.... I can only imagine how scary -14 must be.

[Trespass]

This is why I listen to classical music, flac ripped.

I got Scriabin performed by some no-name guy, and it was so joltingly compressed compared to everything else. But even then, that compression was about what a modern rock song has in its compression.

[forelander]

Originally Posted by HughesJB4

Well, a dude I know that bought Death Magnetic recently used the audio gain feature on Winamp, and found the album gain was -13.20, but he said he had some albums that even exceeded -14.... I can only imagine how scary -14 must be.

A gain of -14 is less than a gain of -13.2, assuming a dB scale. Something with a gain of -14 should be less scary than something with -13.2, numbers closer to 0 should be louder.

[Harry]

Originally Posted by forelander

A gain of -14 is less than a gain of -13.2, assuming a dB scale. Something with a gain of -14 should be less scary than something with -13.2, numbers closer to 0 should be louder.

I asked him about it, and he said with whatever he was using, it was the reverse. Closer to 0 was less compressed, and futher away from 0, more compressed.

[forelander]

:raiseoneeyebrowemoticon: How odd.

[Harry]

^Yeah I know.
My biggest shock was finding out it wasn't the most compressed album ever, considering the solid bar wave form and all

[forelander]

Load the songs for anything from the last few years, they almost all look like that. I don't think Metallica's the first band to do it, they're copping more shit for it though.

[atimoc]

Straying offtopic here, but this picture cracked me up

[jacksonplayer]

I really like the album, so I guess I shouldn't be laughing...

[Emperoff]

Originally Posted by atimoc

Straying offtopic here, but this picture cracked me up

AAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHA!!!!!

[Espaul]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but I feel that metal don't need THAT much dynamic sound this loudness war is spoiling. It will be great to have a bit of dynamic, but in metal it's pretty much balls to the walls all the time.

We all love Bulbs production, and that does not have a lot of dynamic.

In rock, especially prog rock(not prog metal) it's important to have dynamic, but those band usually don't submit to this loudness war.

[Groff]

Originally Posted by Espaul

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but I feel that metal don't need THAT much dynamic sound this loudness war is spoiling. It will be great to have a bit of dynamic, but in metal it's pretty much balls to the walls all the time.

We all love Bulbs production, and that does not have a lot of dynamic.

In rock, especially prog rock(not prog metal) it's important to have dynamic, but those band usually don't submit to this loudness war.

Opeth use a lot of dynamics and ambience.

[The Dark Wolf]

^ Yep.

[damigu]

Originally Posted by Espaul

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but I feel that metal don't need THAT much dynamic sound this loudness war is spoiling. It will be great to have a bit of dynamic, but in metal it's pretty much balls to the walls all the time.

We all love Bulbs production, and that does not have a lot of dynamic.

In rock, especially prog rock(not prog metal) it's important to have dynamic, but those band usually don't submit to this loudness war.

if all you're talking about are the guitar tracks, then you're sort of right (though every prog metal band i listen to does incorporate various volume levels, like opeth and theatre of tragedy).

but there's more to an album than just guitar tracks. when you mix bass, guitar, drums and vocals, each has different volume levels that are time dependent so the final mix should *NOT* have a shape with a near-constant peak level.
for example, when looking at a song's waveform, you should be able to see transients where the kick and snare drums are. they should be immediately apparent. if the volume level of the mix is the same between drum hits as during drum hits, then something is very wrong.

that aside, there's also the peak-to-RMS ratio to consider. the lower that ratio is, the more squashed the sound becomes (this is the basis of compression, after-all). t's an effect that can be used well for an individual instrument/vocal track here or there, but a final mix with a low peak-ro-RMS ratio just has an ear-dulling sound.

[abyssalservant]

At the very least there should be little peaks when you hit the drums, if not when you hit a muted chord - it's not a question of different volume levels in different parts of the song as much as the difference between instruments having rhythmic impact and being softened into a blur. Metal demands that kind of dynamic.

On a somewhat unrelated topic, what the fuck is "Death Magnetic" supposed to mean anyway? It sounds fucking stupid.

[dtrax]

Originally Posted by MerlinTKD

That's the producer's job, to see the big picture and keep it from getting ridiculous. I seriously fault Rick Rubin for this.

Don't be so quick to point the finger. I used to be a full time engineer, and most times the producers/engineers are pressured from labels (or the artist, depending how much creative control they have) to make records that are louder than the competition. The guys making the recordings know better, but it's the execs that think louder means better.

[TonalArchitect]

Originally Posted by Espaul

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but I feel that metal don't need THAT much dynamic sound this loudness war is spoiling. It will be great to have a bit of dynamic, but in metal it's pretty much balls to the walls all the time.

We all love Bulbs production, and that does not have a lot of dynamic.

In rock, especially prog rock(not prog metal) it's important to have dynamic, but those band usually don't submit to this loudness war.

To an extent I agree. Metal will rarely have jumps in dynamics like a Stravinsky piece. But then again, when only one guitar is playing a riff and then the rest of the band joins, there should be a pretty big increase in volume. If there's not, it won't be effective.

[petereanima]

holy shit, thats ridiculous!!

i had the album in the player the whole weekend and gve it several shots, i really like it songwise, but the production just kills it.

[Toshiro]

Originally Posted by Trespass

First Leak waveform:



Retail wafeform:

Vs "I Walk Alone" from the new IE:


Metal needs dynamics!

[yellowv]

Every waveform I see is Cyanide. On the album the 3 pre released tracks sound the worst and have the most clipping IMO. Has anyone seen waveforms for any other songs?

[budda]

Originally Posted by dtrax

Don't be so quick to point the finger. I used to be a full time engineer, and most times the producers/engineers are pressured from labels (or the artist, depending how much creative control they have) to make records that are louder than the competition. The guys making the recordings know better, but it's the execs that think louder means better.

I think Dtrax is the only guy to point this out so far, which is a damn shame - you guys should be aware of this, being musicans who record int he basement and read articles on home recording lol.

i forget where i read the article, but it was about rush's "vapor trails" and the terrible compression and all the rest... and the music was awesome.

so what can you do? listen to the smaller bands who get it done right, maybe? i honestly dont know.

a solid bar? damn. and i also hate when you hear a build-up, but things dont get louder at the breakdown/riff. if someone goes from singing to screaming, you'd think it'd get louder - it sure as hell does in the real world

all that said, i have no intentions of buying this CD.