[eleven59]

I think every musician, and especially songwriter, should talk about music more with non-musicians than with musicians.

I love this forum, you guys are all great to chat with, hilarious in the off-topic forum, and there's a huge amount of knowledge here, and I find my time here is really important as far as keeping me up to date on the music world, and learning how to be a professional.

However, this place can feel kind of claustrophobic when it comes to discussing songwriting, musical genres, etc. as everyone's very strong in their own opinions, and their opinions are based on their perspective of being a musician. In other words, a lot of people set their opinions on music based on technical ability, tone, etc. and can't stand anything simple and catchy.

If you want to have fans, and have non-musicians enjoy your music (and let's face it, non-musicians outnumber musicians by a huge margin), you have to start thinking and listening like a non-musician, and hear the whole song for itself, and the overall impact of the song. Sometimes, as a musician, you'll obsess over things you think are too simple, too cliche, not complex enough, not good enough, but then you'll show it to a non-musician and they'll be blown away.

Personally, I'm getting to a point where I could care less what other musicians think about my playing, and all I care about is what "real people" think of my songs. If I can get a positive reaction out of someone, that's all I'm after. I really don't care about people bashing my playing for being too simple, or saying my songs aren't fast enough or heavy enough. If I can get something to stick in someone's head, that makes me far happier.

[DDDorian]

No-one's against simple and catchy music - the "mistake" is that most of the simple and catchy music you post about on this predominately metal board happens to be nu-metal (or Swedish death metallers having an identity crisis), which you're not going to get an objective opinion of due to so many of us having a vested interest in bashing it It has very little to do with being a musician and a whole lot more to do with when you were born in a lot of cases.

[ArchAngel1024]

One of the things that's good to keep in mind is that only a certain percentage of your audience as a musician is going to be other musicians. And this site's goal (it seems) is to help others be better musicians.

I vote someone adds a song critique section, for writers to get opinions on their work.

Actually, I'll put that in the suggestions area.

But it'll still be from the objectives of other musicians, who will pick out minor things that the average listener won't. So I guess I agree with you in a sense.

[budda]

im willing to bet quite a few people on this board are against a few simple n' catchy (S n' C?) tunes lol

i think aaron was referring more to music outside the metal genre..

good post hombre, good post

[Ancestor]

I can understand your point. And when you play, a lot of people who show the most interest will be those who are or aspire to be musicians.

For me, I find that it may be easier to "impress" (and what is the significance of that?) someone who doesn't play, but they won't place as much importance on the music.

Musicians are real people, too! Don't underestimate their capacity to appreciate unique artistry.

[NDG]

At the same time, musicians can be like the manager at Chotchkie's caring more about flair than anything else.

[Ancestor]

Originally Posted by NDG

At the same time, musicians can be like the manager at Chotchkie's caring more about flair than anything else.

What's your opinion on this dude?

[shadowgenesis]

While i wholeheartedly agree with some of the points you're making, I'd just warn you about how you say it. I don't think a lot of people like being told what to do.

If you want to have fans, and have non-musicians enjoy your music (and let's face it, non-musicians outnumber musicians by a huge margin), you have to start thinking and listening like a non-musician, and hear the whole song for itself, and the overall impact of the song

While i agree with that mentality and hold it very much for my own, I don't think you can preach it like that.
A) A lot of people, i might even go out on a limb and say MOST people, who write music, don't want to write music for other people to like... They want to write music they like, and they hope that other people will like it. Someone could interpret what you're saying as "You should try and dumb down your music so more people like it." It's not what you mean, but it can be taken that way in the eyes of somebody who has no interest in pleasing other people.

B) It is a perfectly viable artform to write music that in a sense targets musicians. By the standards you've laid out, musicians like Steve Vai have no value. There are a ton of musicians who's fan base has a vast majority of musicians among them. You know how many people i've met who listen to Dream Theater or Rush that aren't musicians? A hell of a lot less than people who are.

i think i had a C, but i lost that in explaining the other two.

btw. the saying is "I couldn't care less" not "I could care less."
I had to say it. It's a pet peeve of mine and it drives me batty

[ghoti]

I disagree that non-musicians outnumber musicians by such a wide margin. You have to remember that there are quite a few hobbyists around, as well as the ones who just do stuff like sing in choirs or whatever...

To paraphrase William Shakespeare, "whoever hath music, let no such man be trusted".

[NDG]

Originally Posted by Ancestor

What's your opinion on this dude?

He's definitely bold, but he's no Elliott Smith.