[eleven59]

Originally Posted by 74n4LL0

Non musician are often musically dumb and listen what others (music industry) tell them to listem.
For example a lot of friends of mine listened to Paul Gilbert - Flying dog, thought the songs were cool, but then lost interest because he is not famous and he isn't on MTV.
(sorry I had a bad week end in a car with some friends that were skipping cds to listen only the singles of those albums :|)

Yeah, I should have clarified that there's technically 3 categories of people:

- musicians
- music fans
- idiots

[74n4LL0]

Originally Posted by eleven59

Yeah, I should have clarified that there's technically 3 categories of people:

- musicians
- music fans
- idiots

yep those were idiots

But in my opinion a lot of music fans are more interested in lyrics than music.
I find more interesting to talk about music with non guitarist musician instead.
They often have a more sophisticated musical taste, and they don't focus on technical difficulties of my particular instrument when they listen to the music.
So they just stick to "sounds cool/do not sounds cool"...

To try to not be so focused on I find more interesting to talk about music with people who play: piano, violin, sax, trumpet, etc however...
I think that guitarists should listen to a lot of music without guitars (classical, Jazz even electronic) in this way they can focus on the music instead of the technicalities of the guitar.

[eleven59]

Originally Posted by 74n4LL0

yep those were idiots

But in my opinion a lot of music fans are more interested in lyrics than music.
I find more interesting to talk about music with non guitarist musician instead.
They often have a more sophisticated musical taste, and they don't focus on technical difficulties of my particular instrument when they listen to the music.
So they just stick to "sounds cool/do not sounds cool"...

To try to not be so focused on I find more interesting to talk about music with people who play: piano, violin, sax, trumpet, etc however...
I think that guitarists should listen to a lot of music without guitars (classical, Jazz even electronic) in this way they can focus on the music instead of the technicalities of the guitar.

That too. It's definitely one of the plusses of being in a band is bouncing ideas off of the other musicians, since they'll see things from a completely different perspective.

[urklvt]

Originally Posted by eleven59

I think the point I was trying to make at the start, is that being on here, it's easy to feel crappy about your abilities because there's so much talent here, and it's so easy to let other musicians get to you, saying your music should be heavier, or faster, or more complex. Meanwhile, you've got this simple song you're really proud of, if you show it on here, you get no response, or mostly negative responses with some positive responses, if you show it to your friends who aren't musicians, they are more likely to like it and be less critical, which is a big confidence boost, reminding you that you don't have to impress anyone, and that simple music is still good.

You are definitely right. You can't share your music on a musician forum if you're wearing your feelings on your sleeves. You'll get picked apart. Hell, if you just post a simple clip where you want to demo an instrument or amp rig your playing will get torn apart, and if you post a clip to demonstrate your playing your tone will be criticized. Oh, and don't forget your spell-checker if you're planning on posting here.

That being said, it is wise to seek and accept counsel and critique from a select few trusted musicians. A paradigm shift can make all the difference when you're trying to express something that might be beyond your vocabulary.

It's easy to fall back on the artificial confidence boost that comes from impressing non-musicians. How many of us have heard, "You're the best guitar player I've ever heard," or something like it? It might feed the ego, but it doesn't offer any lasting satisfaction.

Many have said it, and I paraphrase, write what you know, write from your heart, and write from your head. Impress yourself.

[eleven59]

Originally Posted by urklvt

You are definitely right. You can't share your music on a musician forum if you're wearing your feelings on your sleeves. You'll get picked apart. Hell, if you just post a simple clip where you want to demo an instrument or amp rig your playing will get torn apart, and if you post a clip to demonstrate your playing your tone will be criticized. Oh, and don't forget your spell-checker if you're planning on posting here.

That being said, it is wise to seek and accept counsel and critique from a select few trusted musicians. A paradigm shift can make all the difference when you're trying to express something that might be beyond your vocabulary.

It's easy to fall back on the artificial confidence boost that comes from impressing non-musicians. How many of us have heard, "You're the best guitar player I've ever heard," or something like it? It might feed the ego, but it doesn't offer any lasting satisfaction.

Many have said it, and I paraphrase, write what you know, write from your heart, and write from your head. Impress yourself.

Yeah, fully agreed. I guess what I should have said was that it's important to talk to a wide variety of people about music, and do what you love. I just know some musicians/guitarists that only talk to other musicians/guitarists because they feel like non-musicians don't understand them, or are stupid.

[urklvt]

Originally Posted by eleven59

Yeah, fully agreed. I guess what I should have said was that it's important to talk to a wide variety of people about music, and do what you love. I just know some musicians/guitarists that only talk to other musicians/guitarists because they feel like non-musicians don't understand them, or are stupid.

It is hard to feel like you have much in common with a non-musician when they can't really understand your passion, but even harder (for me) to connect with someone to whom it comes naturally and effortlessly. But as long as you have some life in you and you still have that creative spark, yes, by all means, you should talk to all kinds of people.

Personally I don't share my music or my passions with anyone anymore. The spark is dead, and what little life is left in me I don't want to spend getting fucked by anyone other than my wife.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by DDDorian

No-one's against simple and catchy music - the "mistake" is that most of the simple and catchy music you post about on this predominately metal board happens to be nu-metal (or Swedish death metallers having an identity crisis), which you're not going to get an objective opinion of due to so many of us having a vested interest in bashing it It has very little to do with being a musician and a whole lot more to do with when you were born in a lot of cases.

That's a damned good point, you know....


Chalk me up as another one in the "I write music that I want to listen to" camp. I'm not going to dumb down something I like to make it more accessible to some non musician, nor am I going to add complexity to boost my prog cred in the eyes of a musician or anything. If I can listen to the playback and enjoy it, then I'm happy, fuck everyone else.

[FacelessUnknown]

Originally Posted by Drew

That's a damned good point, you know....


Chalk me up as another one in the "I write music that I want to listen to" camp. I'm not going to dumb down something I like to make it more accessible to some non musician, nor am I going to add complexity to boost my prog cred in the eyes of a musician or anything. If I can listen to the playback and enjoy it, then I'm happy, fuck everyone else.

hell yes brother, hell yes.

[TaronKeim]

I create to satisfy my own muse; however, I am mindful that music is a way of connecting/communicating with all people and, whether or not they speak the language, I try to be intelligent without condescension in regards to my compositions.

Music should both challenge and embrace a listener without leaning too far towards the obtuse or the simplistic.

_TJK*

[Mattayus]

I think we're all missing the point here.

I couldn't agree more with the fact that we should all write music WE enjoy, otherwise it's pointless. In fact, it's quite hard to write music you don't like. But what I meant by 'writing for musicians' is that sometimes the self-satisfaction point can be overlooked in an attempt to appease your Berklee grad buddies and i think that's what the thread-starter may have meant in a round about kinda way. I don't do it, personally, because my music isn't all that technical! but have you ever heard a piece of music where you just get a feeling that it's a bit contrived and the writer is almost trying too hard?

but yes, a good side-point being: write it for yourself, and if anyone else likes it, that's just a bonus