[TemjinStrife]

This has come up a few times in discussions, and I figure it warrants its own thread.

I have a "pitch sense" that comes naturally to me. Honestly, I don't know how to describe it better than "perfect pitch," although it's not totally perfect as it can be tricked and doesn't get me 100% accurate, although usually it gets me well within a semitone (right to the point where the "beats" of out-of tune strings or notes played together get really nasty).


-The Way It Works For Me:


The way I perceive a note is that a it seems to "sing" its name to me as it's played, sung, or generated. It's that simple, and that weird. Each note has its own "consonant" sound that my mind "hears" it as. I hear "Enter Sandman" as a sort of "pitched" "E, EGBbA" (when played in standard tuning) as opposed to what I can only assume others hear as notes.

Basically, I can name a note that is sung or played as long as there is nothing to change the "consonant" sound of the note (i.e. lyrics, heavy wah use, envelope filters, whammy bars, some particularly jarring harmonic squeals), since anything that changes said "consonant" sound changes the way the note "speaks" to me, screwing up my pitch.

I have problems with super low notes that have a lot of distortion on them (grindy downtuned bass with little attack, or bad double bass players playing in "unison") as they just don't seem to speak clearly. Conversely, synth pads, vocal ahhs, and lyrical instruments or sounds like cello, violin, oboe, or Joe Satriani are very easy for me to pick up on.

Extremely fast somewhat chromatic licks like Symphony X's riff to "Inferno" or some of Vai's more widdly solos are also difficult for me to understand as each note doesn't get a chance to "speak" clearly, and I have a hard time approximating a tonality and figuring out the notes that way.

Chords are a mixed bag. I usually hear the root or fifth, unless there's a standout note in terms of dissonance in which case I usually hear that as the "speaking" note. But, I do have enough musical ear training to be able to identify most 6ths, 7ths, 9ths, and sus- chords by how they sound, and kind of work backwards from there. It is slower than normal, though... it's like memorizing that 2+2 is 4 versus having to mentally add two and two to get four each time.

It can, also, like I've alluded to in previous threads, be "tricked." If an instrument gradually wanders out of tune, or is there to provide a seriously flawed (maybe just under a quarter tone) "reference pitch," my sense of pitch may temporarily realign to that "standard" if I hear it for long enough or aren't specifically concentrating on it; although if given two pitches I will nearly 100% of the time choose the more correct one.

However, with songs that are entirely a half-step down or up (nothing less or more), my pitch sense "moves" to make it easier to hear what the notes are singing... after all "Db" is easier to process when it's just "D". I can tell when this happens, though, unlike the above example of <quarter tone detunings.


-What it means for me, and how I hear things:


I don't actually know or understand how most people hear music. It's weird to think that. I can't even think of a good analogy for it...

When listening to multi-instrumental music, my mind likes to select whatever instrument is most prominent and focus on that, digesting its pitch. I can also consciously choose instruments to break down. I have a very hard time hearing an ensemble in its entirety without really really concentrating on it... and the instant my concentration wavers I focus on a single melody line or instrument again.

-If due to some effect I can't understand the notes (wah, lyrics etc.) my mind attempts to identify notes anyways, usually wrongly or confusedly, which is pretty distracting.

Transposing (and guitar alternate tunings) are a real bitch as I essentially have to relearn the whole song or fretboard since I'm not hearing what I'm expecting to hear as I play something.

Learning most riffs and jamming is relatively simple, though, since I can follow the bass player pretty easily or even identify the chords being played. Usually the only reason I may not be able to play something exactly right is due to a lack of guitar technique or chord/fretboard knowledge. I can usually approximate it though.

The only other issue I have deals with my speed of thought. I usually have to think of a melody before I can play it, making it pretty hard for me to really rip it up on any instrument.


-My musical background; so you know where this might have come from:


I have played cello since 3rd grade (that makes 13 years now) and guitar for about six. My first sevenstring came about two months ago, but needs some setup and fret work (and a new bridge pickup) before I can really get to grips with it.

I didn't consciously develop this skill; instead, I just didn't realize that it was exceptional until I started playing non-classical (i.e. less heavily notated) music and realized that most people just couldn't pick up and play with my riffs and such the way I could with theirs.

Anyways, that's the gist of it. Getting this out has helped me understand a bit more of how it works and why.

Does anyone else have perfect pitch, or good relative pitch, and any explanations of how it works for them? Any weird experiences?

Or am I just a freak?

EDIT: Wow, that's a lot of text. Making it easier to read...

[TomAwesome]

It sounds like you've got the basic makings of perfect pitch, but it doesn't seem all that developed, and you seem to augment it with relative pitch to compensate. You also seem to try to use perfect pitch for most things, even when relative pitch skills may be more appropriate (like with transposition).

I think I'm a few steps behind where you are. At least I was, but I've fallen out of practice a bit. I used to be able to focus on the whole band or ensemble, hear every note in a chord, etc. When I had just started playing guitar, I was able to teach myself songs by ear without much trouble. I can identify some notes out of thin air with no reference, but it doesn't always happen. Sometimes I'll hear something and just suddenly think, "Oh, that's an A!" or some other note, and when I check it on my guitar, I'm usually right. It doesn't happen often enough for me to get to brag about it, though.

Perfect pitch and relative pitch are both really good skills for any musician (or linguist, actually) to have. I really need to start training my ears again.

[TemjinStrife]

The thing is, I don't really have "relative pitch" at all, as far as I can tell. You play me two ascending fifths, say F-C then D-A. I hear "F-C" then "D-A." I don't hear the "fifth." I have to count on one hand (or imagine the cello strings under my fingers) to figure out the interval.

It's also not something I've trained in... I just realized I had it one day, and now I'm trying to adapt certain lessons and stuff like alternate tunings (which come much easier to people with relative pitch) to my own sense.

As a matter of fact, I fear that I never really will have relative pitch, because the notes "singing" overrides anything else really. I can only identify suspended or 7th chords because I hear them so often that they have their own way of "singing" to me.

As for using perfect pitch for everything (including transposition)... I don't have a choice. That's kind of what I was trying to get at. I'm locked into the toolset I have, and I have to deal with it. Thus, I tend to laugh at people who wish for perfect pitch; it really is a double-edged sword.

[Celiak]

I can tell you where on a guitar the notes are played (I'm not deaf), but as far as knowing what notes they are... Whatever... a's, b's, sharps, flats... Holy hell, I can barely do basic math! What do you want from me!

[arnoroth661]

Originally Posted by TemjinStrife

It is slower than normal, though... it's like memorizing that 2+2 is 4 versus having to mentally add two and two to get four each time.

Well, there's your problem. 2+2=5
Sorry, I've been reading 1984 by George Orwell.

[Naren]

Originally Posted by TemjinStrife

The thing is, I don't really have "relative pitch" at all, as far as I can tell. You play me two ascending fifths, say F-C then D-A. I hear "F-C" then "D-A." I don't hear the "fifth." I have to count on one hand (or imagine the cello strings under my fingers) to figure out the interval.

It's also not something I've trained in... I just realized I had it one day, and now I'm trying to adapt certain lessons and stuff like alternate tunings (which come much easier to people with relative pitch) to my own sense.

As a matter of fact, I fear that I never really will have relative pitch, because the notes "singing" overrides anything else really. I can only identify suspended or 7th chords because I hear them so often that they have their own way of "singing" to me.

As for using perfect pitch for everything (including transposition)... I don't have a choice. That's kind of what I was trying to get at. I'm locked into the toolset I have, and I have to deal with it. Thus, I tend to laugh at people who wish for perfect pitch; it really is a double-edged sword.

I would actually say that relative pitch is more important than perfect pitch, but most music university professors I've met or seen say that they are both absolutely necessary and equally important.

There's an old idea that anyone can learn relative pitch, but that you are either born with perfect pitch or not. Recently however certain people have proven that you CAN learn perfect pitch as well (it's been known forever that you can learn relative pitch, since it's quite easy to learn), making the idea that anyone can learn perfect pitch as well.

I have pretty good relative pitch, but I'm no good at perfect pitch. When I used to take music theory classes, if you told me what the first note was and played a melody after it, I could notate the entire melody perfectly, but if you didn't tell me what the first note was, I'd have no reference for the rest of the melody. It's just be a 5th above "X" and then a minor third above "X" and so on.

[jacksonplayer]

I've gotten better at pitch recognition when listening to other people playing guitar (I can tell when somebody is playing a big old open E chord, versus when the same chord form is played on a detuned guitar). But I'm hopeless when listening to other instruments. I'm better at relative pitch recognition, which is probably more important for what I do, since I'm not a singer or violinist.

The scariest "perfect pitch story" of mine is a college buddy who was the first-chair cellist in the university symphony. I could play, at random, the most complicated chord I could dream up, and he could name it back to me immediately. He's one of those guys who associates certain pitches with colors.

[Naren]

Originally Posted by jacksonplayer

The scariest "perfect pitch story" of mine is a college buddy who was the first-chair cellist in the university symphony. I could play, at random, the most complicated chord I could dream up, and he could name it back to me immediately. He's one of those guys who associates certain pitches with colors.

The scariest guy I knew was a lot worse than that (in how amazing he was). He was a master at guitar, bass, violin, piano, mandolin, drums, vocals, and had just begun to learn saxophone. Other people I knew, I'd say, "Could you help me figure this out?" and they'd take several minutes just figuring out little riffs. For him, I could play him any music, whether it was on the guitar or any other instrument and he could play it back note-for-note on his guitar after just one listen. The dude had the most amazing memory and ear. Kinda like Mozart's ability. If it was a really really complicated super fast 30 second solo, then he might have only gotten 90-95% of the notes right, but the dude was frickin' amazing.

I wish I could do that, but I doubt that level of skill is something you can just sit down and figure out.

[TemjinStrife]

Originally Posted by jacksonplayer

He's one of those guys who associates certain pitches with colors.

One of my more musically talented friends can do that. She has no problem hearing fast passages or notes with "altered" consonances. Basically, she got the "useful" perfect pitch, although she has the "focus" problem that I do, where her mind automatically goes to one instrument to the detriment of the rest of them. She also has problems "feeling" harmonies.

[jacksonplayer]

Originally Posted by Naren

I wish I could do that, but I doubt that level of skill is something you can just sit down and figure out.

Yeah, that's pretty much into Shawn Lane-type musical genius territory. Stevie Wonder is another example of that. Dude plays everything and pretty much has since he was a little boy.

[Leec]

Originally Posted by jacksonplayer

He's one of those guys who associates certain pitches with colors.

That's synaesthesia. And it sounds a little like the original poster has a very unusual form of that, associating actual letter names with notes.

[TemjinStrife]

Originally Posted by Leec

That's synaesthesia. And it sounds a little like the original poster has a very unusual form of that, associating actual letter names with notes.

Interesting. I never thought of it that way, but it does make some sense I suppose.

[Codyyy]

I'm pretty good at figuring out intervals by ear, although sometimes I have trouble distinguishing a minor 6th from a major 6th.

I definitely don't have perfect pitch, but I can "think" of chords and notes enough to tune my guitar without a tuner. Like I have to think about it, but if I picture in my head what an open E sounds like, I can tune to that. I can do the same with D, C, G, and A. Nothing else really though, although I assume I'd develop that ability with those other notes if I spent more time with them in terms of open chords. This picturing of a note of chord is a conscious effort on my part though, it's not just there like it would be if I had perfect pitch.

Edit: I should probably add that I usually think f these tones as their open chords. If I think of Em in open position, I can usually think of every note individually.

[TemjinStrife]

Well, many would consider pulling a particular pitch out of thin air, regardless of concentration, to be akin to "perfect pitch."

And yeah, those sixths can be obnoxious because of the particular dissonance they bring to the table.