[siggy14]

But the only two that really fought me up till you decided to step in was metaken and the dark wolf. And even metalken backed off, not saying he gave up, but either he had something to do, or just decided i had a valid point, or just figured it wasnt worth the fight.

Either way once you stepped in everyone all of a sudden started jumping out of the wood work. You get down on my for expressing my opinion, but mean while everyone else keeps expressing there opinions but it is not a problem.

You are like dr jekel and my hyde, one minute you are saying i should respect the opinions of the board members, but next minute you are not respectiong mine. One minute you are saying i shouldnt be saying anything mean or putting down something, and then the next minute you are saying you dont give a fuck what people say.

Originally Posted by Chris

This isn't the Wall Street Journal dude, it's a website full of shredders and metalheads. What makes you think that everyone on this thread is completely unfamiliar with her material? If you search "avril lavigne" on here, chances are you'll come up with a few threads from me saying how much her first album kicks ass. Not everyone here takes in a 24/7 diet of Kreator and Deicide (well, Ken does), so it's short-sighted of you to just jump to the conclusion that you're the only one in this thread that's "qualified" to comment on her music.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by Chris

Clearly, your narrow minded, immature, hypocritical views damn your posts before they even spew forth from your keyboard.

Oh, my bad, I figured that was coffee.

Siggy, listen to the Firesoul video. You'll feel better.

[Drew]

Ooooh, coffee. I need coffee. I'll be back.

[Lucky Seven]

Originally Posted by siggy14

But the only two that really fought me up till you decided to step in was metaken and the dark wolf. And even metalken backed off, not saying he gave up, but either he had something to do, or just decided i had a valid point, or just figured it wasnt worth the fight.

Either way once you stepped in everyone all of a sudden started jumping out of the wood work. You get down on my for expressing my opinion, but mean while everyone else keeps expressing there opinions but it is not a problem.

You are like dr jekel and my hyde, one minute you are saying i should respect the opinions of the board members, but next minute you are not respectiong mine. One minute you are saying i shouldnt be saying anything mean or putting down something, and then the next minute you are saying you dont give a fuck what people say.

Stop hijacking this thread. You've made your point. People disagree. Get the fuck over yourself.

[siggy14]

But I had this argument with dave yesterday and it went like this. Do you consider bruce dickenson from Iron maiden a musician, Dave said yes, ok then why dont you consider ashley, they both do the same thing, write lyrics. One happens to be in a metal band, one happens to be in a pop punk band.

To be honest with you, i agree though, I have always considered singers entertainers unless they actually help write the music.

Originally Posted by Chris

There is more to being a musician and a songwriter than just being able to jot down how you feel dude. If it was that easy, every kid with a diary would be classified as a world-class artist.

Ashlee Simpson is an entertainer. The majority of the fans of that genre don't give a shit about musical merit. What works for her is that she has a lot of talented songwriters coming up with the material for her. If someone gave me a copy of And Justice for All with no vocals, and I belted out some shit over it with Andy Sneap producing my vocal tracks, the album would probably still kick ass.

Look at bands like Kelly Clarkson, Chris Daughtry, or any of the American Idols. I have the KC album. I think it's great. Why? Because the songs are very well written and catchy. However I don't consider Kelly Clarkson a world class musician because at the end of the day, she sang over someone else's stuff.

Pop music is just karaoke with backlines you haven't heard yet.

[Chris]

The Jekyll/Hyde person in this thread is you dude. Read what I am typing before replying, please. I'm debating with you why it's wrong for you to tell someone that their opinion is wrong. That's why it's called an opinion. Everything I say is my opinion unless I state it as a fact.

I don't care what you say about the music I like. I don't care what anyone says. I do care when someone like you hops on my site and starts calling the members a bunch of hypocritical, narrow-minded, immature know-nothings because their opinion of Ashlee Simpson is different than yours.

I'm not down on you for expressing your opinon. I'm down on you because you are telling everyone else that their opinion is wrong, and you're doing it while grandstanding on a soapbox.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by siggy14

But I had this argument with dave yesterday and it went like this. Do you consider bruce dickenson from Iron maiden a musician, Dave said yes, ok then why dont you consider ashley, they both do the same thing, write lyrics.

That's like comparing Steve Vai with any kid who walks into a guitar store and plays smoke on the water for the first time. If you own a guitar, congrats, you're a guitarist. Being a musician is something that takes work. They are not the same thing.

If I go out and buy a hammer I don't call myself a carpenter.

[Drew]

I think the disctinction is I doubt Bruce has ever done any acting and/or modeling on the side, and isn't a regular at Hollywood red carpet events.

Bob's Luscious Locks, on the other hand... Hmm. Maybe you have a point.


I still haven't made coffee yet, by the way. :/

[The Dark Wolf]

Originally Posted by Chris

That's like comparing Steve Vai with any kid who walks into a guitar store and plays smoke on the water for the first time. If you own a guitar, congrats, you're a guitarist. Being a musician is something that takes work. They are not the same thing.

If I go out and buy a hammer I don't call myself a carpenter.

This is what I've been saying over and over with the Big Mac analogy.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by The Dark Wolf

This is what I've been saying over and over with the Big Mac analogy.

I think part of it is that amongst musicians, the amount of respect someone gets tends to be directly related to how talented they are. (Funny how that is). People who are talented don't need to go around defending themselves like Ashlee does. You'll never see Petrucci say "Seriously, come on guys, I'm good!". It's not just instrument skill either. Listen to Soundgarden, or hell, fuckn' Nirvana. I doubt many people spent hours pining over difficult Soundgarden tabs, as Kim Thayil didn't play the most complex stuff. But he wrote really, really good songs.

The same applies (well, if you ask Drew) to Nirvana. I'll always be jaded because they were the proverbial nail in the coffin to my beloved 80's metal genre, but Cobain was a good songwriter. I don't like the songs he wrote, but I also don't like the Beatles, Ani DiFranco or hell, Beethoven. Me saying "I don't like it" is not me saying "they aren't talented". I respect their music because I believe that all of them ARE talented, it's just not what I like to listen to.

With pop music, the talent all comes from someone other than the person in the spotlight. Simpson's sold millions of albums. Who's her guitar player? Who's her drummer? Where are their red carpet entrances? When Joe Perry walks down the red carpet, he's Joe fucking Perry. When Ashlee's guitar player goes to an event, nobody gives a shit, even if he's the guy that wrote their favorite song.