[Naren]

Originally Posted by zimbloth

D standard actually makes just as much sense in that regard if you want to use that argument. It's standard because musician's as a whole are very stubborn and adverse to change. That's why there's legions of people out there who will turn their noses up at the thought of Pro Tools, or tube that's not a NOS Telefunken, or all the people that spend $7000 on a Gibson 59 reissue when you could get an infinitely better sounding/playing guitar for 1/4 of that, etc. Really though we should explore context. In metal and hard rock, it's not standard and it really never has been. Again, Sabbath C#, Rush, Stones, Beatles, Hendrix, etc used alt. tunings. Old school thrash bands tuned to Eb and D often, old death metal in D, C#, B etc, 80's hair metal bands often tuned in Eb or D (Motley Crue comes to mind), etc.

As for the thrash thing, I agree with you that thrash (usually not the most dynamic music but fun) doesn't need to be in B or anything. I mentioned thrash above for that reason. That said, it certainly sounds better in Eb or D than in E most of the time, at least IMO. I'm no advocate of riding a low B-string. On the majority of our songs, you could play 70-75% of the song on a 6-string tuned to D standard. I don't mind if someone likes E tuning. It's just so limiting and for people like Dave to put down 7's is just ridiculous.

You will note that this is 100% your opinion. I personally think that E tuning is much much better for thrash than Eb or D. I also think that E standard is a much better standard tuning than Eb or D and anything lower than that gets rid of the brightness or low range (which is the reason why I play sevens). Sure, E standard is not the "standard" tuning for metal right now, but it still is the standard tuning for rock, blues, jazz, funk, classical, and so on. I think throughout metal's entire history, E standard has been used more than any other tuning.

To insult someone as "primitive" and old-fashioned because they don't downtune or use extra strings is just ridiculous. Seeing as guitarists who use sevens or eights are pretty uncommon, the huge majority of guitarists would be primitive - including most bands you listen to. I think Dave is wrong and hypocritical for ridiculing downtuning, but it's his choice. I don't really trust your opinions on tuning because I remember you saying several times that nothing tuned above D can be heavy. Seriously...

And what do you mean Megadeth haven't released any good albums since the 80s? Their best album was released in the 90s, Rust In Peace. They also released several good albums after that such as Countdown to Extinction and Youthanasia. I agree that the last 4 or so albums have been pretty mediocre (or just downright shit) but I think all of their stuff from the 80s and first half of the 90s was of excellent quality.

[zimbloth]

Originally Posted by Naren

You will note that this is 100% your opinion.

Obviously, that's what counts. The fact it was my opinion is implied by the fact that I said it. I didn't say "According to a study at MIT..." did I?

Originally Posted by Naren

I personally think that E tuning is much much better for thrash than Eb or D. I also think that E standard is a much better standard tuning than Eb or D and anything lower than that gets rid of the brightness or low range (which is the reason why I play sevens).

That's an indictment on your gear more than the tuning. My D strings are every bit as bright as my E string on my B tuned 6'er.

Originally Posted by Naren

To insult someone as "primitive" and old-fashioned because they don't downtune or use extra strings is just ridiculous. I think Dave is wrong and hypocritical for ridiculing downtuning, but it's his choice. I don't really trust your opinions on tuning because I remember you saying several times that nothing tuned above D can be heavy.

That's a flat out lie. I never said that. My fleet of Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, and Emperor CDs say otherwise. Not to mention all the Eb bands I love (too many to fucking list). I said I personally would never tune higher than D on a 6'er because the flavor of the chords and the voicing of the open strings appeal to me, and not having any notes lower than Eb would be extremely limiting to me.

Originally Posted by Naren

And what do you mean Megadeth haven't released any good albums since the 80s? Their best album was released in the 90s, Rust In Peace. They also released several good albums after that such as Countdown to Extinction and Youthanasia. I agree that the last 4 or so albums have been pretty mediocre but I think all of their stuff from the 80s and first half of the 90s was of excellent quality.

I was exaggerating, it seems like 20 years to me. Even their 'good' albums I don't think are as good as everyone makes them out to be. I think the same can be said about a lot of Metallica CDs. Just my opinion, to which I'm entitled.

Anyways I think you were missing the point. My point was to me someone like Dave embracing the purity and wonders of standard tuning while at the same time bashing 7-strings is completely ridiculous for the myriad of reasons I stated in my previous post.

And yes, someone who wants to limit themselves to ONLY having 6-strings tuned to E (in a metal context) is really missing the boat IMO, that is a primitive concept to me. If someone has a few guitars in different tunings, and one of them is E, that's a seperate issue. It's just the concept of someone who knows music/gear/metal songwriting, and yet somehow comes to the conclusion that he doesnt like the tone of any notes below E; it's simply crazy to me. It doesn't make it wrong, just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[Naren]

Originally Posted by zimbloth

That's a flat out lie. I never said that. My fleet of Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, and Emperor CDs say otherwise. Not to mention all the Eb bands I love (too many to fucking list). I said I personally would never tune higher than D on a 6'er because the flavor of the chords and the voicing of the open strings appeal to me, and not having any notes lower than Eb would be extremely limiting to me.

Actually you did say that and you probably just don't remember. It would be bothersome to find the quotes since it was about one and a half years ago. I called you on on what you said and you said that you liked some bands that played in tunings above D, but that you didn't consider them "heavy." I remember you saying that you didn't think that Pantera, Metallica, or Megadeth were heavy.

I can't believe you don't remember that. I'm sure you said that in more than just one thread. It's definitely not a lie. I have no reason to just make up something like that.

Originally Posted by zimbloth

Anyways I think you were missing the point. My point was to me someone like Dave embracing the purity and wonders of standard tuning while at the same time bashing 7-strings is completely ridiculous for the myriad of reasons I stated in my previous post.

And yes, someone who wants to limit themselves to ONLY having 6-strings tuned to E (in a metal context) is really missing the boat IMO, that is a primitive concept to me. If someone has a few guitars in different tunings, and one of them is E, that's a seperate issue. It's just the concept of someone who knows music/gear/metal songwriting, and yet somehow comes to the conclusion that he doesnt like the tone of any notes below E; it's simply crazy to me. It doesn't make it wrong, just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Okay. I can agree with you there on the text I bolded.

However I don't see anything wrong with a guitarist deciding to play only in standard E. I've been in several bands where I only played in one tuning and I don't find that primitive at all. Insulting tunings other than the one you use, however, is quite ignorant and foolish. But Dave is not the most reasonable and friendly guy out there.

[Clydefrog]

Eh, I remember you saying that "nothing above D is heavy" too. I couldn't be assed to find it, but it's one quote that I remember striking me when I read it. Was a very long time ago, though.

[zimbloth]

Originally Posted by Naren

Actually you did say that and you probably just don't remember. It would be bothersome to find the quotes since it was about one and a half years ago. I called you on on what you said and you said that you liked some bands that played in tunings above D, but that you didn't consider them "heavy." I remember you saying that you didn't think that Pantera, Metallica, or Megadeth were heavy.

I can't believe you don't remember that. I'm sure you said that in more than just one thread. It's definitely not a lie. I have no reason to just make up something like that.



Okay. I can agree with you there on the text I bolded.

However I don't see anything wrong with a guitarist deciding to play only in standard E. I've been in several bands where I only played in one tuning and I don't find that primitive at all. Insulting tunings other than the one you use, however, is quite ignorant and foolish. But Dave is not the most reasonable and friendly guy out there.

Eh. I definitely think plenty of bands in Eb or E are heavy. I just named some. Judas Priest. Maiden. Need more be said? Find the quotes if you want, I'm not here to argue. I am simply standing behind what I've said in this thread. To me it blows my mind that a competent musician could come to the conclusion that there are zero notes below E that are worth having. I think it's okay, but again, for the very final time - *I* just don't get it.

You're right, I don't think Megadeth or Metallica are or ever were that heavy. They were certainly GOOD, certainly FUN, etc... but they never got me pumped up or wanting to headbang. I enjoy some Metallica, especially IJFA. Pantera I think has a lot of heavy songs, if I said that I might have been talking about their old stuff. The Great Southern Trendkill has a lot of heavy stuff on it for example. Musically I liked VDOP as well, but CFH didn't do much for me, neither did FBD. RTS had its moments.

[zimbloth]

accidental post

[DDDorian]

I think you're all getting way too worked up over this. Giving credence to Dave's opinions on pretty much anything these days is just insane. Would you have all your fillings removed because the crackhead on the corner assured you that the FBI would use them to read your thoughts? Ladies and gentleman, Dave IS that crackhead, the only difference being that Dave pretty much needs to say stupid stuff to seem "edgy" and stay in the public eye.

As for Zimbloth's comment about D tuning, I remember it too. Who cares? Everyone has a right to change their mind; hell, I remember posting about how refreshing the Divine Heresy album was when it came out. I've listened to it maybe once since then

[zimbloth]

Originally Posted by DDDorian

As for Zimbloth's comment about D tuning, I remember it too. Who cares? Everyone has a right to change their mind; hell, I remember posting about how refreshing the Divine Heresy album was when it came out. I've listened to it maybe once since then

Well I didn't change my mind dude, I've always liked a ton of bands in standard tuning I think people just take things too literally sometimes. Again, the only point I've been trying to make is what's in bold above.

I feel the same way about the Divine Heresy record. I was all into it the first week or so, now it's kinda boring

[Naren]

Originally Posted by zimbloth

Well I didn't change my mind dude, I've always liked a ton of bands in standard tuning I think people just take things too literally sometimes. Again, the only point I've been trying to make is what's in bold above.

Well, I assumed you had probably changed your mind since you said that what I had said was a "flat out lie" (but 2 people have backed me up on it). No problem, though. I can agree with a lot of what you're saying, Nick, just not all of it. Even though Megadeth really haven't made any good albums in the last 10 years (I would not agree with 20 years or even 15 years, personally), when I saw them live, they put on a very very good show, playing mostly stuff from before 1995/1996.

And, like Dorian said, you really shouldn't put too much stock in what Dave says because he tends to just run his mouth and say whatever the hell comes to mind. And he probably does do it to stay in the spotlight as much as possible.

I'm just happy to see that Dave is letting Chris use Ibanez 7-strings, although I would never be so deluded as to believe he'd let Chris add low end sevenstring riffage on any of the future Megadeth albums. And I think Chris is the first Megadeth guitarist I've seen to be able to perfectly play the solos live.

[Xaios]

It's a bit of a paradox we find ourselves in now. No matter what Dave does now, he'll never be able to win by lots of people here. If he doesn't let Chris utilize his 7th string on the next record (assuming Chris is still around), people will rail Dave for not doing anything original and taking chances to energize the music. On the flipside, if he DOES let Chris use the 7th string, we'll all praise Chris, but we'll still rail Dave, this time for only allowing Chris to use the 7th string to broaden MD's appeal and for giving them the contrived appearance of being on the cutting edge.