[Zepp88]

Originally Posted by ibznorange

i was talking to ed
i didnt even notice any press at all about NTD. i just knew about it cause i had his first album, which my buddy (english teacher in highschool) showed me.
Its definitely possible to do, but its hard. I mean, look at fugazi. it took em years, but iirc they were the first band to go platinum on an indie label.

I have no issue with most of the recording industry. what i have a problem with, is the same thing you do, the way some music is pushed, and other shit is ignored, all in the name of money

Yeah, the music industry certainly isn't evil incarnate. But, just turn on the radio and you'll hear the bad side of it

[ibznorange]

shit, go to live shows.
first concert was awesome/bad
Gob
Saves the day
unwritten law then, now
Social D
System of a down :inbetweenway:

lately, i saw
Scary kids scaring kids
silverstein
Operator
Paramore i guess, it was eh
Cypress Hill
Smashing pumpkins

it sucks how shit just gets pushed. its really obnoxious

[Zepp88]

Originally Posted by ibznorange

it sucks how shit just gets pushed. its really obnoxious

HEY HEY HEY LOOK!!!!! THIS IS COOL!!!!! BUY THIS!!!!!!!

[ibznorange]

you should have heard MCR push the used. that was funny

[Zepp88]

I really like how Trent is selling "Still" on his website cheaper than anyone else.

[Scarpie]

hmmmm i for one never minded the digital download as opposed to physical cd's/ my favorite band has been doing it since 2003.
if trent is going to digitally release his next work i would feel better downloading for whatever fee he charges, especially since i have not liked anything he put out since the downward spiral.
now for musicians who download for free, i believe they do it out of ignorance and aren't fully aware of its horrible effects on the artist, or they truly have no respect for what they do and have completely lost touch with what music is all about. i heard trent talk about this YEARS AGO and he said something that i straight up couldn't argue and that is, that downloading is STEALING. So if musicians understand this and do it anyway, the cynicism will never cease to cut great bands short of any success or inspiration to continue doing what they love.
i mean where is the incentive to work your ass off to express yourself musically and have no appreciation shown in return, and on top of it it's stolen from you from people who can't spare a few bucks out of their convenience. it's bullshit.
i buy cd's still to this day, and always will. if the band/album/or even A song on it rocks, then why not merit the band for tickling your fancy with pleasant tunes?
if bands aren't signed and release digitally then i'll download. bottom line, i love music, respect the artists that make the music that makes me want to play, and with no hesitation reward them of my funds out of gratitude for what they do.

[Mastodon]

Originally Posted by Rebourne

I won't pay 5 cents for something called "Niggy Tardust."

WTF were they thinking?

Go listen to Saul Williams, and maybe then you'll understand.

[7 Dying Trees]

Well, it's pretty much fact that at the moment the only reason to make an album is to use it to promote yourself as a band in order to generate touring revenue and merchandise sales.

However, this also means that the days of big budget productions are all but over.

[Crucified]

this post has nothing to do with NTD but personally i buy very little music. I download a lot and wait until i can either see the band live and buy the entire discography direct from them or mail order direct from the band. This may be easier for me as I listen to mostly underground music. If i've been listening to a band that i know just isn't going to tour anywhere near me(like fuck... i'm dead or pig destroyer or the like ) I do my best to get it direct from them instead of supporting say, HMV or something.

[zimbloth]

Well dude, buying a band's CDs is important because it gives them leverage with their label. If a band comes out with a CD, and it sells well in its opening week or 2, even if the money isn't going to the artists, it still benefits the artist. The label will be more likely to support them if their stuff sells decently well. They'll be more likely to fund future albums, promotion, etc. I understand the importance of labels is dwindling, but it's still helpful to sell CDs.

So, really boycotting CDs just because the artists don't see much (if any) of the sales, really doesn't help the band you love. I always download music first, and if I like it, I will buy the CD. I like having the physical CD, the package is nice and it's cool to have a lossless quality album for the car or to rip to the computer.

[Crucified]

I'm not boycotting cd's(if you're talking to me) i just prefer to get the direct from the band and for the most part the cd's i want to buy aren't coming from major stores anyway, so it hasn't been much of a change from the way i normally do things. I used to buy from my local small town record store but for the most part the music i like just isn't carried.

[jacksonplayer]

Originally Posted by eaeolian

Marketing is really the issue in this case, and this model isn't workable unless you've already got hooks into the existing press system.

Marketing is *always* the issue. In fact, it's the only issue. With my new album, I'm going to spend a few bucks to have some silver cds pressed (you can, in fact, do that in orders of way less than 1000 copies, which is still the threshold for many CD repro places). I'll have it on CD Baby and maybe one or two other progressive/jazz-oriented sites. It'll be on iTunes. It's cheap as hell to make your music available, now, compared to the old days of the LP and the early CD days.

But who's going to know about it, other than people who already know me personally through this and other forums? Part of the reason that I'm having silvers pressed is so that I can send out review copies that have a chance of it getting listened to. In fact, some online reviewers will *only* accept silver cds. And even with all that, I'm sure I will only sell a few copies, which is ok because I'm not trying to make a living off of it.

The big labels give you access to promotional muscle, nothing more. But that's a pretty damned big deal if you are trying to make a go of it as a career. Besides downloading, I think part of the problem is that music generally is not as culturally important as it was 20 or 30 years ago. There are fewer places to play live, and the pay (if any) for doing so is much worse.

[sakeido]

Originally Posted by jacksonplayer

The big labels give you access to promotional muscle, nothing more. But that's a pretty damned big deal if you are trying to make a go of it as a career. Besides downloading, I think part of the problem is that music generally is not as culturally important as it was 20 or 30 years ago. There are fewer places to play live, and the pay (if any) for doing so is much worse.

I would say that culture isn't as culturally important anymore ahaha
Everything... poems, novels, short stories, music, art, etc. seems to be less important than it was. Now its all been replaced by consumerism and big business.

[newamerikangospel]

I have some problems with that little statement. I will use bulb/periphery here just because of how "slick" the recordings are


1) They make music technically for free. Electricity plus the actual recording program aside, they spend no extra money.

$0 spent for the product itself

2) With the figures given, $5 a download times 28,332 downloaded, we have $141,610. The problem with their recording is trent went all out on it. Say they only got 10% of the total after the fees with getting X product. $14,161. I make a LITTLE more than that a YEAR. 40 hours a week x 56 weeks. Homedog grabbed that in 2 months maybe? So yeah it isn't that much compared to what nin made in their higher popularity days.

If periphery did the same thing, and only had say 4500 downloads which he might have even more with the unique sound of the band, thats $22,500. Thats more than they would get if they sold 100,000 on a major label, especially a first contract band (what they would get around 2 shares per unit moved)

$22,500

3) They did nothing for this album. There wasn't a "street team" built, which usually pushes more than commercials do. Post on forums, build a website for $10-15 a month and put up a street team. If periphery did a 12 month period of a website costing $15 (a pretty decent clip of bandwidth for a one record band)where everyone could find you and tourdates, you spend

$180

4) SHOWS MAKE YOU MORE MONEY THAN YOU WILL EVER HAVE FROM A RECORD UNLESS YOU ARE METALLICA. Very few bands actually make anything than pocket change from an album. Cannibal Corpse is considered a father of contermporary death (death being the grandfathered). They dont really make that much off the albums they have put forth. The fact that 154,449 knew about the record is great for a touring cycle. How many people shared that free album with other people on their ipod. Say 1.5 of that and we have 231,673 people that might go to a show. Thats a good clip.


People who have made alot of money, expect alot of money. I bet they ended up with more than we think, its just dwarfed by past accomplishments.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Rebourne

I won't pay 5 cents for something called "Niggy Tardust."

WTF were they thinking?

I agree with you. Horrible judgement call. I don't care if Williams is black or not, an album with that name is not going into my collection.

[sakeido]

All they did is change one letter and take one away from "Ziggy Stardust." I don't think its that big of a deal.

[Metal Ken]

So, wait. Reznor is complaining, that since 2004, Saul's last album sold 33 thousand or so? And this new one that was just recently released already sold 28 thousand?

[newamerikangospel]

Yeah, its a "dis-heartening" post remember.

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by Metal Ken

So, wait. Reznor is complaining, that since 2004, Saul's last album sold 33 thousand or so? And this new one that was just recently released already sold 28 thousand?

Maybe the sales peak is within the first year, so it might actually make sense. I don't know.